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Email this5:54 pm
September 11, 2013
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mordko, don't really want to get into it much further, let's just say I'm very skeptical of any stats on this, especially when coming from a public sector entity that is not unconnected to the issue being analyzed.
10:12 pm
April 6, 2013
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As well, their 30% children being food insecure statistic means that 70% are not.
Parents of those 70% are among those who are not only food secure but can also donate to the food banks. Where does one think all the food the food banks provide and funding of the food banks comes from? The government?
Some of the parents of those 70% are probably the ones seen by Bill making good use of the airports.
3:49 am
November 18, 2017
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RetireEd, population growth via immigration can be a very good thing. The influx of skilled Europeans in the years after WWII is a good example, great time of growth for Canada.
Bill: We all know that demographic imbalances can make more immigrants and children seem attractive, but looking after those people once they're older will be the bill to pay. (That's the theory behind "Temporary Foreign Workers all over the world - use'em and lose'em) Going ever-deeper in debt is not a Good Thing. We need a long-term strategy that will allow reasonably stable population numbers.
Infinite population growth on a planted with limited resources is a Ponzi scheme.
World War II was a long time ago, and closely followed a major depopulation of significant parts of the world. COVID-19 was modest compared to the huge wars and epidemics from the past, and it concentrated on older victims in terms of mortality. But there's also a debt of people with persistent symptoms.
I didn't say anything about GDP. Was that for someone else?
Dean and mordko: I judge that the CBC has an outstanding crop of staff, and even Conrad Black agrees. On the other hand, the Financial Post has a lot of shills and axe-grinders. But the real way to judge the truth is to follow it and find out where it's coming from, and how it fits the facts.
As for "People have money," some do and most don't. Income and wealth inequality have risen steadily in recent years. Food Banks are a symptom of a non-functioning economy, and we've allowed then to take over the support of people who should be able to get jobs that pay for their rent and food. Food banks are now profit centres for large merchants, and some fairly well off families are now counting them as part of their financial support.
RetirEd
4:40 am
April 27, 2017
Online
Norman1 said
As well, their 30% children being food insecure statistic means that 70% are not.Parents of those 70% are among those who are not only food secure but can also donate to the food banks. Where does one think all the food the food banks provide and funding of the food banks comes from? The government?
Some of the parents of those 70% are probably the ones seen by Bill making good use of the airports.
People with assets are doing well, yes. People working for the government are doing ok too. Not 70% though; having enough money for food and shelter does not make you well off. The argument that 30% of children being food insecure translates to good news is wild.
The fact is that the number of people on the bread line has grown dramatically and that food banks are out of food. Its shocking. And that an average Canadian feels worse off and is worse off.
5:52 am
March 30, 2017
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mordko said
And that an average Canadian feels worse off and is worse off.
One of the reason some feel worse off is because they were too accustomed to low borrowing cost and spend beyond their means.
I will never agree with the formula bank uses to calculate how much house one can afford for example. Even applying the stress test to weed out the weakest borrowers is a mediocre deterrent at best.
As for people relying on food banks and welfare, I always believe our social welfare system is way too generous for way too long. It's counter productive and it's not good for anyone, any society in the long run. It encourages one to be a non saver, to say the least.
Most of us who post here are the net savers, who spends within our means. But we are not the norm, sadly.
6:19 am
November 5, 2022
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One interesting point that rarely gets made. People criticize the "generous welfare" program of $750 a month, which will not rent a room these days.
Or the generous food banks, with people lining up for a few hours for a basket.
Does getting "free money" make people lazy?
How about those who passively receive enough money per month to essentially cover their living costs? Many who post in these forums do, and have generally built that up themselves through years of work and investing.
But how about those who "inherit" that same kind of money, and who now collect much more than any welfare program for doing nothing?
Doug Ford screams about the lazy welfare bums, but never a word about the trust fund bums, who are literally doing the same thing.
Obviously a complex topic, but a UBI may be required as AI eliminates countless jobs.
7:18 am
April 20, 2019
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I agree with mordko. IMO we are starting/in a recession. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i do not agree with Norman on this particular topic. The reality is things are getting worse for the avg canadian.
The other reality is the people on this forum are VERY unlikely to be the financial struggling type because of the nature of this very site-its for savings. People with no money are not saving.
We have a skewed perspective on this site. That's the reality.
10:44 am
January 12, 2019
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.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch . . .
Canada's Jobless Rate continues to get Worse, and is now at Almost 7%, in spite of the large growth in new jobs.
- Today's BNN News Article ⬇
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/business/economics/2024/12/06/canadas-jobless-rate-reaches-68-in-november/
.
The 'R' word continues to be ever more Plausible.
- Dean
" Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! "
10:53 am
January 13, 2022
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I find myself in agreement with Mordko. It's true that many in our country have money, including, no doubt, the majority of people who visit this forum. But what I see is a growing divide between those with and without means. And often, just looking at statistics obscures more than it reveals. I believe that people dropping off the grid, for example, aren't reflected in any statistics (once people exhaust EI, for example, they're no longer in the workforce and so aren't included in EI statistics). I have no conclusive proof to offer other than the increasing use of food banks, thrift stores, etc. But anecdotally, here on the island, it's shocking to see the number of people LIVING off grid. Venture off the main road from Victoria to Comox or Tofino, for instance, and you'll be shocked at how many people are eking out an existence in the bush. I live close to a trail that you can walk or cycle from Nanaimo to Victoria. Even in the short section I routinely walk, there's a couple of unserviced, off-grid mobile home parks (probably illegal) where old campers, 5th wheels and motorhomes are increasingly moving in. With 1.2 million mortgages coming due in 2025, I wonder how many more will be joining them.
11:35 am
December 12, 2009
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First, Andrew Chang's About That video came out months earlier.
Second, Norman1 is merely saying we're not in a recession currently based on known knowns (i.e., backward-looking Canadian economic data of GDP for the preceding two calendar quarters, which, yes, do not indicate a recession).
However, Poloz is not confirming we're in a recession currently, but predicting we're likely to be in a recession once the Q4 2024 and/or Q1 2025 economic data is out in January and April 2025, respectively.
So it's not merely a zero-sum equation that if Chang is right, Poloz must be wrong, or vice versa. Similarly, if Norman1 is right, the rest of us are wrong. One is a citing of backward-looking economic data; one is is projecting based on current and forward-looking indicators, which is entirely valid in economic forecasting, as Poloz well knows as a former Bank of Canada governor.
For me, I believe we're likely to be seen as in recession, especially now with the impacts of the Canada Post strike, which I think we're not even included in the economic modelling.
BoC will likely cut 50 bps in December and 25 bps in January or February, or vice versa, with a view to get the BoC Policy Interest Rate down to 2.25-2.50% by Q4 2025. If you're a conservative saver and not in a five-year rolling GIC ladder, I recommend restarting one now, or reevaluating whether moving up the risk curve is appropriate for your personal and financial circumstances. 🙂
Cheers,
Doug
2:07 pm
April 27, 2017
Online
On the other hand with CAD dropping, unions getting restless and a bunch of other factors at play, we might get inflation popping back up and BoC might not be able to drop the rates as fast as they wish. Medium term rates are notoriously difficult to predict at times like these.
2:10 pm
November 5, 2022
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Do the larger economic trends control an individuals responses and results?
For example, "most people" are terrible saxophone players, but some are great at it, as they worked at it for a decade or five. So just because most people are horrible at playing the sax, doesn't mean you have to be bad too.
Same with finances, you can get better at it if you work at it. Of course most people are going to be terrible at it, as its complex and difficult.
Many people waste a fortune on beer, smokes, weed. But do they go to No Frills to get 2.25kg of large flake oatmeal for $4 on sale?
So yes its important to know the macro trends, but individuals can buck those trends.
There are entire youtube channels with people making 100 videos of how our government wrecked their life. Did they? Why not channel that energy in another way? If you even suggest to that person they can make different choices, they go absolutely ballistic.
So if the overall economy goes into a recession, or the CDN economy is not great, people can invest elsewhere and make adjustments.
Buffett has said many times a person should be ready to operate if the markets don't open next week.
2:56 am
April 14, 2021
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InterestThis said
One interesting point that rarely gets made. People criticize the "generous welfare" program of $750 a month, which will not rent a room these days.
Where are you getting those numbers?
In Alberta, Assured Income for the Severely Handicapped (AISH) pays at least $1,837 monthly and you can get more.
https://www.springfinancial.ca/blog/save-invest/aish-payment-dates-canada
While you may not be living your 'best life', that amount will maintain basic survival; that means no drugs, alcohol, smoking, or gambling.
5:37 am
March 30, 2017
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InterestThis said
But how about those who "inherit" that same kind of money, and who now collect much more than any welfare program for doing nothing?
Doug Ford screams about the lazy welfare bums, but never a word about the trust fund bums, who are literally doing the same thing.
Obviously a complex topic, but a UBI may be required as AI eliminates countless jobs.
I will leave those out that are born with a silver spoon in their mouth. They have done nothing right or wrong to be in that position.
As for those who clearly can work but rather rely on the generous social welfare program, I will never agree with their choices. To me any free money being hand out is generous, as that money is funded by hard working Canadians who pay income tax while also have to pay for food and shelter and everything just like others.
6:03 am
April 27, 2017
Online
This shouldn’t be about class warfare.
People who used to look after themselves are falling on hard times. Asking community organizations for help to get gifts for their kids. They are embarrassed, I can see it. Not new in itself but its new that so many are doing it for the for the first time. Not addicts, just ordinary single parents.
8:09 am
October 27, 2013
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I see the growing inequality today more a case of those who have no debt vs burdened with debt. The extraordinarily low interest rates since the GFC caused so many to borrow and spend so far above the norm that when interest rates surged post-pandemic, those burdened with debt have disproportionately suffered. Why did they buy more house than they needed? Why did they finance $50-70k auto purchases? Why does the population carry so much consumer debt, and especially credit card debt?
I have empathy for those that are struggling but I have little sympathy for those that burdened themselves down with debt. I have never been a believer in debt and only had mortgages as debt, which were paid off as quickly as possible. It is not something one sees much of today. Maybe the pendulum will slowly switch back to lower levels of debt. I hope so.
8:55 am
September 11, 2013
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RetireEd, yes, my comment on GDP was in response to someone else. But the ongoing solution to population growth is general affluence which brings education to females which leads to their liberation and them picking careers & fun over having children, check out dramatic decline in birth rates in first world females over the last few generations (not the only example, parts of Asia increasingly the same), so global population growth not a long-term concern.
InterestThis, trust fund bums cost taxpayer nothing, welfare bums do, big difference. And Ford has never screamed about lazy welfare bums, that's false.
mordko, it's clear that our perceptions are shaped by our experience. In my personal life, the people on my (modest income level) street, in my circle, in my entire extended family and so on, everybody seems to be doing very well, most getting wealthier as the years go on from what I can see. The reality you say you notice is not at all what I'm seeing, anywhere. I do see a very few more homeless folks around, I hear about all these food banks, but I also know way more people taking a tropical vacay in the winter every year, and parents spending thousands a year on kids activities, weekend tournaments with hotels & restaurant meals than ever before too, just to give a couple of examples. And stats are usually very selectively provided, you can show anything with them, so in summary to me it's pretty hard to know exactly what's actually going on outside our own personal vantage points.
9:24 am
October 27, 2013
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I tend to agree with Bill to a large degree. Yes, food banks* around here are seeing very significant increases in the number of families showing up for food hampers but a lot of them also are sporting rather good clothing and showing up in nice vehicles. The evidence is there if one cares to observe.
So either they have had fairly recent misfortune and are indeed cash flow starved, or they have misplaced, or are misplacing, their priorities in what they spend money on. I suspect much of the increased traffic is due to what I just posted above, folks who got themselves far too indebted on stuff they didn't really need. Folks need to pull back on their 'wants' and reset their priorities. Hopefully, interest rate decreases now in progress will provide much of the cash flow relief indebted folk need to get back on their feet within this next year.
If Canada is, or will be, going into recession, it is Canada's own fault, both that of our terribly wasteful and misguided governments and consumers who made bad choices in their spending priorities.
* I stepped up my annual contributions significantly to the local food bank during the pandemic and will continue to do so based on food bank demand, for the simple reason I want those that are truly in need to be able to source their needs.
4:13 pm
April 27, 2017
Online
Regardless of our personal experiences, the fact is that Canada’s median income has been going down for some time. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/canada-s-median-income-after-tax-is-down-latest-statistics-show-1.7006153
This is unevenly distributed. Older people with assets and careers are doing great financially. So someone must be really hurting and I thought it was hard to miss. Apparently I was wrong.
7:58 pm
November 5, 2022
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HermanH said
InterestThis said
One interesting point that rarely gets made. People criticize the "generous welfare" program of $750 a month, which will not rent a room these days.Where are you getting those numbers?
In Alberta, Assured Income for the Severely Handicapped (AISH) pays at least $1,837 monthly and you can get more.https://www.springfinancial.ca/blog/save-invest/aish-payment-dates-canada
While you may not be living your 'best life', that amount will maintain basic survival; that means no drugs, alcohol, smoking, or gambling.
Ontario max welfare rate is $733, and it says you can't have more than 10K in assets.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/financial-assistance-ontario-works
https://www.ontario.ca/document/ontario-works-policy-directives/42-asset-limits
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