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Email this6:33 am
October 21, 2013
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I remember reading years ago that the words “I agree with you” are some of the sweetest sounds we all like to hear. They make us feel good.
It seems, however, that Customer Service Reps have now confiscated the manual on this and have reduced these words to meaninglessness, just like most PR balderdash.
Last week, as it was year end, I had occasion to speak to reps from 3 banks.
The first one, at Scotia, told me that while the branch I wished to speak with did have a phone number and that I had dialed it correctly, it didn’t really matter because all calls to that number are routed to her in some central call centre somewhere. I said this made no sense since, the last time I’d inquired a few months ago, it was made clear that I could only deal with this matter at this particular branch.
Me: “So, why can’t I reach that branch?”
Obviously she’d been asked this before, because the answer came quickly and clearly. “The function of branch staff is not to answer phone calls but to deal with the person who walks into the bank.” My mind wanders unbidden to recent significant staff cuts announced by Scotia.
So, I conclude, if I want to talk to the person in the bank, I must go there in person and hope someone has the time to talk to me. Clearly this is modern banking at its finest.
So, why bother with a phone number for the branch at all since it will never ring there? The answer is immediate. “Because”, she explains, “this enables me to know which branch you were trying to contact”!
“But”, I protest, “I’m the customer, and that theory does absolutely nothing to meet my needs.”
Final answer: “I agree with you.”
End result: I never did get to the branch or conduct the business I intended to conduct at Scotia because the only person to whom I was allowed to speak could not confirm an appointment that afternoon although she guessed there were some available based on the outdated information in front of her. It seems they don't deal in real time at the bank.
Second call, bank #2, National. I call the branch closest to me before Christmas. They actually answer the phone, or appear to. Who really knows? “Where is your branch?”, she asks.
I answer that as far as I know it might be in cyberspace somewhere because the 2 addresses on my original documents are no longer valid addresses for this bank, and the statements they have sent for the last 10 years give no local address at all, only an address in Montreal, where I have never lived or banked.
“Oh”, says she. So, she hunts around and tells me I must now deal with yet another branch quite a few miles from me. She gives me the branch’s phone number.
I phone. I get an answering machine. I leave a message. Nobody calls back. I call again after Christmas, determined to keep calling until somebody responds. I call the central number, where I wait on hold for 15 minutes without ever being informed how long I might have to wait, so I hang up as I could apparently be on hold all day. Finally, I receive an apologetic call-back from the branch. Yes, I can meet with a bank rep to do my transaction this afternoon. When? Any time. It seems they are not so busy after all. Just to be safe, I make an appointment.
I meet the fellow in question at the appointed hour (well, actually a little late, as I can’t find the place). In the course of the conversation I point out that it has been next to impossible to contact anyone at the bank for days and that this is yet another reason why I am closing this account. I show him my stack of bank statements with vast amounts of pristine white space, none of which tell me which branch I belong to. I also point out the 6-point type at the bottom which gives me the central phone number where I was kept on hold indefinitely. I comment that it must be really busy this week (all the while noting that I am the only customer in the place). He sort of laughs and says that it hasn’t been busy at all. I tell him what I think about this. Guess what? He “agrees” with me.
With bank draft in hand from National, I then make my way over to TD, a couple of blocks away, to deposit it asap. I’m having a Stephen Leacock moment - what if the National branch, which was so hard to access and is not listed in any of my documentation, were to vanish before I get my money out of there? Time is of the essence...
The teller at TD, a very friendly fellow whom I have never laid eyes on before but who calls me by name in every solitary sentence, asks me if I want to put it in chequing or my “high interest” savings account. I say it can go in my low-interest savings account as TD doesn’t offer a high interest account and chequing offers no interest at all. He is suddenly very confused and asks that I please not confuse him lest he make a mistake. Yes, I see; truth is very confusing. I point out that TD offers the lowest interest rates on savings accounts of all the banks in the country (or at least it did a few weeks ago the last time I looked). By now, you won’t be surprised when I tell you that he tells me he likes my sense of humour - and that he “agrees” with me!
I am not making this up.
What an agreeable useless lot they are! It’s not their fault, of course. This is obviously what they have been trained to say. If it were only one of them, I might think that person was exceptionally understanding. But when they all do it in one day and none has the slightest idea as to how the problem might be addressed or can tell me what is being done to correct something that he "agrees" is a problem, then I know my opinion/experience doesn’t matter in the slightest to anyone. But, for a few seconds, the sweet nostalgic ring of "I agree with you" almost quiets my frustrated customer's heart.
Well done, banking industry! What an efficient agree-able way to end a conversation without ennervating a single muscle fibre to address a problem.
So, let this be a warning. Never trust anyone who agrees with you! Language ain’t what it used to be.
8:18 am
December 23, 2011
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Great story. I have similar with Coast Capital. You phone them and usually answer right away. But in conversation they tell you to go to the branch and they "can't do". Go into the branch....three tellers....one busy....the other busy and the third one is helping the first one with his customer. So the ménage a trois is over and the middle one goes back to playing with her calculator.......and I am thinking if you could help your buddy teller and Iam a customer in your direct sight waiting first in line....WTF? So now teller one is finished and offers her service to me while middle teller still offers no help, so if the phone in service is supposed to promote exclusive help to the walk in customer some one needs to tell the branch manager. In my next visit, service was quick. I asked if she could do some account housekeeping to close my TFSA , RRIF and RRSP account and she said I would have to make an appointment with a money pro. I asked how do you make an appointment? Call the number on the back of your ATM card was her reply. She said I would have to talk to a "Money Pro". We chatted a bit more and I was thinking...who did she say I need to talk to? She repeats "money pro"....... I smile holding back the laughter. Thinking that would be the woman that I spoke to last time to put some RRSP money into a RRIF GIC. I was asked why a RRIF and not a RRSP. I respond, because with the RRIF I can income split and she throws her arms up the in air and says "ok". I know it costs them more to set up a RRIF than an RRSP but if she saw any value in me she would have done it without an inquisition. The not so "Pro", "Money Pro" didn't take any regard to the thousands and thousands of dollars that my wife and I put through them via my adviser handling them as their agent.
Loonie, I agree. 
11:33 pm
October 21, 2013
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kanaka said
Loonie, I agree.
... but can I trust you?
Actually, I was surprised that the "Money Pro" guy at National never questioned why I was closing out my RSP and never suggested I re-invest. If anything, they should be asking why one is NOT converting to RIF first, because of the possible usefulness of the Pension Tax Credit, not applicable here.
When I arrived, he had the papers all filled out and the cheque made up and signed, ready to go. I appreciated this, but, like I said, I don't think he had anything else to do that day! It wasn't a lot of money. He probably thinks it's all I have as I was not dressed for Bay St. (In this case, no advantage to split, just topping off my bracket.)
I also find it peculiar, come to think of it, that he never asked me for any form of ID. Perhaps the fact that I had come defensively armed with a file full of 20 yrs of docs (always anticipate trouble!) impressed him sufficiently, but I would actually like to know that banks took precautions, especially as I am on the watch list generated by the Peoples Trust breach.
11:35 am
December 23, 2011
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Loonie said
kanaka said
Loonie, I agree.... but can I trust you?
Hmmmmmm over the years I have stayed away from that word.
How many "Trust" companies have gone broke leaving investors in a lurch
How many times have you heard an HR Manager say "You can trust me"
How many companies use the word "Trust" in their slogans
ie. A major security company says.......strong.....reliable...."trustworthy"....forward-thinking
Maybe i am paranoid but the use of this word can be in subliminal messages that some begin to take for granted (mission accomplished) and some may begin to believe before they can actually adjudicate if the person or company is trustworthy (mission accomplished).
I prefer to not fall into the majority of "mission accomplished" individuals so in my opinion the "label of trust" needs to be earned.
5:07 pm
October 21, 2013
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"Truth in advertising"?
It helps to put problematic words in quotation marks until proven reliable, I find.
It reminds me of something I learned early in my university career. A company with the words "Canada, Inc." in its name is not really Canadian. In those days it was almost always a subsidiary of a US company. There oughta be a law!
Anyone wanna join the Society for Telling It Like It Is? The possibilities are almost infinite.
5:46 pm
December 23, 2011
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Loonie said
"Truth in advertising"?
It helps to put problematic words in quotation marks until proven reliable, I find.
It reminds me of something I learned early in my university career. A company with the words "Canada, Inc." in its name is not really Canadian. In those days it was almost always a subsidiary of a US company. There oughta be a law!
Anyone wanna join the Society for Telling It Like It Is? The possibilities are almost infinite.
Hmmm the company I worked for was inc, but controlled from America. I was told it was changed from limited to inc, as the spelling was the same en francois.
11:11 pm
October 21, 2013
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It might be the same phenom for Inc as for Ltd/Ltee. I'm not very knowledgeable about corporate structures. The characteristic element that I was referring to seemed to be the use of "Canada", normally in brackets (in those days), following the name of the company.
1:39 pm
December 12, 2015
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Loonie, I loved this post. SO TRUE!!!
Got a similar stance from a nice Zag lady when I asked why they are not open to QC residents, and when would this be corrected. No answers, just an empathic agreement that it makes no sense, since they are owned by Desjardins. "Ironic" she says...
2:31 pm
December 23, 2011
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Saver-Mom said
Loonie, I loved this post. SO TRUE!!!
Got a similar stance from a nice Zag lady when I asked why they are not open to QC residents, and when would this be corrected. No answers, just an empathic agreement that it makes no sense, since they are owned by Desjardins. "Ironic" she says...
You would think that in both you and Loonies case the employee has been trained to respond that way and is permissible by the employer or you may have a disgruntled employee that is not loyal (<=dumb move for job reference). Often when you call you will be warned the call "may" be recorded.....dose the employee have the option to turn the recording off. I would think not as the employer probably wants to also monitor their employees.
Here is a web site where Coast Capital employees vent there pros and cons. Perhaps there is for Zag, Scotia, National and TD?
https://www.glassdoor.ca/Reviews/Coast-Capital-Savings-Reviews-E244979.htm
7:32 pm
October 21, 2013
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I believe this response has to be sanctioned, indeed encouraged by management, for the reasons kanaka suggests.
Continuing the theme, yesterday I was in a restaurant. I just could not eat the salad, as the dressing on it was loaded with sugar. I've run into this before and often eat only a few mouthfuls, but this one was really very unpalatable as it had even more sugar and no redeeming flavour.
So I told the server, when she asked how we liked our food. She said she "agreed" with me, that she also found it too sweet, but that many people like it. No doubt. There's always a market for sugar and diabetic test strips!
She offered plain greens, no dressing at all. I said I would not find that enjoyable, but asked her to inform management of my complaint, which she said she would do.
She later went off shift without speaking to us further about this issue, although continued to offer friendly service. There was no adjustment offered on the bill or complimentary anything.
In other words, the fact that she "agreed" did not cost the company one cent, but it did serve to de-escalate the complaint. A managerial 'success"?... perhaps.
This is a restaurant that has a small chain of 6 or 8 outlets. I had never been there before, and have no plans to return.
8:37 am
December 23, 2011
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Loonie said
I believe this response has to be sanctioned, indeed encouraged by management, for the reasons kanaka suggests.
Continuing the theme, yesterday I was in a restaurant. I just could not eat the salad, as the dressing on it was loaded with sugar. I've run into this before and often eat only a few mouthfuls, but this one was really very unpalatable as it had even more sugar and no redeeming flavour.
So I told the server, when she asked how we liked our food. She said she "agreed" with me, that she also found it too sweet, but that many people like it. No doubt. There's always a market for sugar and diabetic test strips!
She offered plain greens, no dressing at all. I said I would not find that enjoyable, but asked her to inform management of my complaint, which she said she would do.
She later went off shift without speaking to us further about this issue, although continued to offer friendly service. There was no adjustment offered on the bill or complimentary anything.
In other words, the fact that she "agreed" did not cost the company one cent, but it did serve to de-escalate the complaint. A managerial 'success"?... perhaps.
This is a restaurant that has a small chain of 6 or 8 outlets. I had never been there before, and have no plans to return.
I think I just figured out the strategy. Keep in mind I was on the operational side of a major retailer. See my analogy at the end.
Your restaurant experience just reminded me. We went out to a restaurant in June 2015 that would usually cost $120 for two to dine. Level of service was a screw up right from the get go. Our waitress was clueless in regards to the menu and common sense. I refused to eat my meal.....a 3"X3" grisly piece of steak, powdered mash potatoes, and 3 green beans and a $10 glass of domestic beer. The manager said they could not guarantee the quality of the meat and offered another meal. I didn't want to take the chance to be further infuriated so I declined. I talked to him about the service from our waitress and he would only apologize for one of the issues. Only the meal I ordered was not charged...I did pay for the beer and they kept coming by the table asking if I would like another as no doubt it was one of the highest marked up item they sell.
So when you analyze restaurant food....most of it all comes from Sysco. The rest is up to the restaurant to provide you with a hot meal and good service. This doesn't seem to happen any more...warm food....hum drum service.
So since this June restaurant visit we have pretty much reduced our dining out by 90%. We will return only to the known establishments with good food and service. No more White Spot, Tim Hortons, and never a MacDonald's or the like. I can't believe how much budgeted spending money I have left over every month.
So here is my analogy. I received a very carefully chosen apology for one piece of many issues. You keep hearing they "agree". Obviously there is a new way of being polite to customers, offering no level satisfaction to your logic or expectations, and having no intention of improving their product, service or system. IS THIS THE NEW "LOWER LEVEL" that Canadians should expect? I know I am NOT prepared to take it. I would say keep the pressure on as our logic and expectations are not outlandish and need to be met. Never the less we will remain unsatisfied and will have little to no loyalty to the business......at the end......they will loose.
Keep the pressure on. Ask for the manager or supervisor. Email the CEO or VP. And lastly.....don't patronize and tell your friends and family why.
Also keep in mind what a tip is. Your server/waiter/waitress is your go between the kitchen and the restaurant management. They are there to make sure you have clean utensils, condiments, meal prepared properly etc. But most don't seem to know that. I have no problem not leaving a tip if the latter is not provided. And oddly enough servers in Washington State are being partially replaced by table top electronic devices since the State increased minimum wages.
Ps. When my wife often orders salad...she will ask for the dressing on the side.
8:37 pm
October 21, 2013
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I appreciate the wisdom of what you are saying, kanaka.
I think that one of the reasons i posted this thread in the first place was because of the audacity of "hearing" a complaint, doing absolutely nothing to address it, and the very effective way it has of shutting up the complainant. It kind of takes your breath away, almost literally. I had found myself with no quick comeback with all 3 bank employees - not like me!
This latter point is why it is such a great strategy from their point of view. They can admit the moon as long as they don't have to do anything about it, and are therefore willing to admit to "agree" with almost anything.
You are right. We must learn to adapt our complaints to their new strategy and not let them get away with it. If something is unacceptable, then it is unacceptable, i.e. we should not accept it.
If we are aware of the issue and have thought about it, we will be better prepared to respond. Even just saying, "I hear that you agree with me. Now, since we're all agreed, what are you going to do about it?" would be a start. Let them know right away that agreement is not sufficient. And go from there.
As an aside, I would never accept that the quality of the meat is not the restaurant's issue. That's laughable. It absolutely is their issue. They bought it; they cooked it; and they decided to serve it - unless, of course, it was "mystery meat", so labelled on the menu.
I have rarely, in my entire life, gone to the major chain restaurants for anything. Swiss Chalet every few months (at the CAA bargain rate, $16 for 2 dinners, with no frills) is about as far as it goes for us. The chains are handy for washrooms, but the food is terrible in most of them. And the smell (which, I swear, they pipe in) stays in your clothes!
I do, however, patronize a few mom-and-pop places on a regular basis. They are consistent, reliable, moderately priced, glad to see me, and remember my name! It can take a lot of trial and error to find them though.
The one I am complaining about is a very small chain, new, and based in Quebec. We went there primarily to try the item they have based their reputation on, which was very good and did not involve salad.
I often order dressing on the side too but did not think of it this time. In this case it would not have helped, as any amount of it would have been toxic! I would, at best, have been left with naked rabbit food.
10:48 am
December 23, 2011
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Just looking at who we complain to.....the waiter...salesperson...bank teller.....all the wrong people! So they are being trained to respond to you by agreeing to your dissatisfaction to buffer you from going to their management. Bottom line.....you/we are still disgruntled and any further business with them is in jeopardy, not to mention bad word of mouth. That method is only going to help them go down the drain.
The only way to handle things is right now and somewhat to the customers satisfaction.
A week ago my time share called me and emailed me with an urgent message. Yay....BS....they just want to sell me more taking advantage of my jovial Christmas mood and the offer of at Par. My wife says don't bother, your blood pressure will go up. But months ago we stayed in Vegas and things were up to their standards so when we got back home I complained to the correct person and was given no satisfaction and I escalated it once again, no satisfaction. So you know the old saying what comes around goes around. So back to my urgent call....I told him to get to the point....and off we were into a sales session. So basically I told him about dissatisfaction of the Vegas resort and the results of my complaint........saying if you are going to treat owners like s***, then why would I buy more?. Ooops that backfired on him! He said he was writing everything down and was flustered on how he would get back to me as also during the conversation I asked for them to never call again. Haven't heard back
Although my complaint was not resolved....I feel satisfied
Ps. Last time at Swiss Chalet was about 10 years ago. We watched the servers slide into the kitchen on the greasy floors. Swiss Chalet is not that popular in the West......not very many of them either.
5:28 pm
October 21, 2013
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Yes, we have many more Swiss Chalet outlets in Ontario.
They are franchised, and quality varies from one to another. We have our favourite one, in a dumpy location but better quality than others in nicer locations.
They DO have very good complaint service, as central office is keen on standards and consistency. I complained about slippery floors on the way to the washroom and pre-emptive nightly cleaning with smelly chemicals before we were finished eating once. Received a follow-up phone call from local owner, who was very apologetic, and these things have never happened again. I think the local owners are really scared of getting calls from central to clean up their act.
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