Tangerine Warning | Page 2 | Your stories | Discussion forum

To some people's analysis of Tangerine's T&C, which is overly vague, it's still an illegal capital control, if true.

The OP mentions in a subsequent post that a Tangerine CSR confirmed it was OK to make the withdrawal. Did the withdrawal from within Tangerine or from within DUCA? If from with DUCA, did the OP independently confirm, ideally with screenshot, that there were no holds in place?

Banks cannot, nor should they, as far as I understand, restrict withdrawals on cleared funds via cheque or cheque-like instruments (i.e., bank draft from Tangerine or Electronic Funds Transfer sourced from elsewhere of Tangerine). No bank or credit union does this. None. If Tangerine is doing this, we need proof and, if it can be supplied, should prompt a massive letter writing campaign to OSFI, FCAC, OBSI, your MP, Ms. Rideout (with Tangerine), Mr. McPhedran (at Scotiabank), Mr. O'Sullivan (also with Scotiabank) and Mr. Porter (also with Scotiabank). Tangerine should also be brought up on federal charges. However, proof needs to happen first before I'd support that. 🙁

Cheers,
Doug

OP stated he cleared the transfer through Tang in advance but initiated a push from Duca. Probably would have avoided the grief all together if he just did a pull from Tang. That way their 25K limit wouldn't apply, and, I'm betting, the 50K limit from Duca wouldn't apply either. I'm not sure why the trf would have made it to Tang in the first place. He should never have been allowed to set up an EFT that violated their limits. That would be an issue I'd take up with Duca. I'm getting a bitter taste in my mouth defending Tang.

Going Occam's razor on this one. OP stated in post 11 that "the maximum is 50k daily, 200k weekly" according to Duca. He then initiated 2 transfers of 100k each from Duca to Tang, either of which would have violated the daily maximum twice over, according to him. I'd venture to say that he wouldn't have gotten a NSF charge at Tang if he didn't pre-authorize the transfer with them, apparently while he was on line initiating the transfer from Duca at the same time. That, out of everything, seems the oddest. I prefer to just do the transfer and raise holy hell after it fails. Sure, the same transactions have been successfully transferred since then, but that was after talking directly to Duca, so no surprise there. Since I have in the past, and others more recently, pulled hundreds of thousands at once into Tang using the pull method, something doesn't ring true... there is either more to this story than we are aware of, someone at either institution screwed up, or the customer erred. Since the max limit was violated, I'm going with the customer. No offense. I've done far worse, I think we all have.
PS; I believe they CAN restrict free and clear funds using the limits they set out in the T&C. They can do anything they want as long as you check the little box and agree to the T&C. If you don't like them...don't bank there.

Rick said
OP stated he cleared the transfer through Tang in advance but initiated a push from Duca. Probably would have avoided the grief all together if he just did a pull from Tang. That way their 25K limit wouldn't apply, and, I'm betting, the 50K limit from Duca wouldn't apply either. I'm not sure why the trf would have made it to Tang in the first place. He should never have been allowed to set up an EFT that violated their limits. That would be an issue I'd take up with Duca. I'm getting a bitter taste in my mouth defending Tang.
  

I'm confused...if he "push"ed the funds to Tangerine from DUCA, why would there be a debit in his Tangerine account?

Rick said
Going Occam's razor on this one. OP stated in post 11 that "the maximum is 50k daily, 200k weekly" according to Duca. He then initiated 2 transfers of 100k each from Duca to Tang, either of which would have violated the daily maximum twice over, according to him. I'd venture to say that he wouldn't have gotten a NSF charge at Tang if he didn't pre-authorize the transfer with them, apparently while he was on line initiating the transfer from Duca at the same time. That, out of everything, seems the oddest. I prefer to just do the transfer and raise holy hell after it fails. Sure, the same transactions have been successfully transferred since then, but that was after talking directly to Duca, so no surprise there. Since I have in the past, and others more recently, pulled hundreds of thousands at once into Tang using the pull method, something doesn't ring true... there is either more to this story than we are aware of, someone at either institution screwed up, or the customer erred. Since the max limit was violated, I'm going with the customer. No offense. I've done far worse, I think we all have.
PS; I believe they CAN restrict free and clear funds using the limits they set out in the T&C. They can do anything they want as long as you check the little box and agree to the T&C. If you don't like them...don't bank there.  

Thanks for the clarification, Rick. It sounds to me like a DUCA error that allowed him to initiate subsequent "pulls" from Tangerine to DUCA that exceeded his limit. I'd be going to both Tangerine and DUCA to get fees reversed and any negative narratives removed from my profile, if that's what happened.

As for a bank restricting cheque or EFT debits that are externally sourced, they have to have a damn good reason to do this. Damn good reasons include:
* a balance block on the account due to a requirement to pay the Canada Revenue Agency or Family Maintenance Enforcement Program. Garnishees from civil court orders can happen but, in my experience with HSBC, banks are often quite reticent to act on these without additional research. also, this should still show up as funds not available or as a blocked balance and, if not, the bank should be fixing this
* Forged/fraudulent endorsement (typically only for cheques for large value amounts, often above $5000 or $10,000 as banks don't check signatures on cheques lower than those thresholds)

That's pretty much it. If they're saying they can do otherwise for "other reasons," their T&C is unlawful and would likely be challenged successfully in court, but that's expensive. So, they get away with shoving these unlawful T&Cs at us. 😉

Cheers,
Doug

Rick said
OP stated he cleared the transfer through Tang in advance but initiated a push from Duca. Probably would have avoided the grief all together if he just did a pull from Tang. That way their 25K limit wouldn't apply, and, I'm betting, the 50K limit from Duca wouldn't apply either. I'm not sure why the trf would have made it to Tang in the first place. He should never have been allowed to set up an EFT that violated their limits. That would be an issue I'd take up with Duca. I'm getting a bitter taste in my mouth defending Tang.
  

We are getting the ends mixed up.

OP did a pull at DUCA to pull money from Tangerine Bank to DUCA.

I think $50K per day/$200K per week are DUCA's withdrawal limits for pushing money out of DUCA. I don't think those are DUCA's limits for pulling money into DUCA at DUCA. That's why the PAD's were transmitted by DUCA and received by Tangerine Bank.

For some reason, the PAD's were subsequently returned by Tangerine Bank to DUCA with the return reason as NSF.

Rick said

Norman1 said
OP did a pull at DUCA to pull money from Tangerine Bank to DUCA.

Money was going to Tang, not Duca, That IS a push... you can't "pull" money from both ends. He did a push from Duca but got permission (????) from a Tang CSR first. Hence Duca's limits would apply.

I thought the money was going from Tangerine to DUCA. So, it was a pull done at DUCA:

tcharger67 said
Well guys I decided to switch my savings into Duca financial last week. Unfortunately I got a nasty awakening when I checked my Tangerine Account today
2 No sufficient funds charges on my tangerine... Why because the two withdrawls had exceeded their daily withdrawl limits.

How could one end up with NSF's at both ends on a push? Receiving end would never return a direct deposit credit as NSF.

I'm totally confused.

To the OP: can you restate what you did following the correct lingo? Be sure to include if you made more than one transaction request that received a confirmation number. Several forum users may be confused and it's causing confusion for me. 🙂

A push involves transferring money to a given institution from that sending institution's online banking interface.

A pull involves transferring money from another institution from the receiving institution's online banking interface.

"Push" transactions appear as direct deposits at the receiving institution and cannot be returned except for a very time-limited window for reason code "not authorized". That window is typically 7 days.

"Pull" transactions appear as pre-authorized debits at the sending institution and can be returned for a variety of reason codes (next day, at the bank request) similar to cheques (they clear through Payments Canada's ACSS system); however, for pre-authorized debits ending in FTD (HSBC Bank Canada and a limited number of FIs display this information) are considered "fund transfer" debits and so you agree to a special agreement whereby they can only be returned at your request in only one or two reasons within 90 days and even then, it's challenging.

Cheers,
Doug

Totally confused too.