Tangerine Winter Savings 2017 Promotion | Page 4 | Tangerine Bank | Discussion forum

Rick said
How do you "pull" funds from EQ into Tang? I thought you needed a blank cheque and/or transit/institution numbers for EQ to set it up in Tang?
Also, last transfer I did from Tang into Tang (Friday), they post dated it to next Monday, so no bonus double interest.
Anyway...got my 3.25% promo and started 3 transfers out of EQ.
What Tang knows about me from the last year's worth of promos:

How much I have in my liquid savings
How much and often I contribute to it
What other banks I deal with
They can't goad my wife (secondary account holder) into opening her own
account by offering her a promo rate but not the primary account holder
I will move funds into Tang for the right offer
I will move funds out after the promo ends
I will not keep funds in at .8%
I will not move funds back in for a .23% difference over 3 months

Maybe there is some logic as to why everyone gets different offers.

hey Rick,

No worries! If you are dealing with EQ Bank and Tangerine, you're in luck as both now use the paperless, electronic account verification method with one or two small EFT credits deposited to your "to be linked account" within 1-2 business days for which you verify the amount(s). They are generally less than $1.

If I understand you correctly, you want to "pull" funds to Tangerine. "Pull"ing funds is a colloquial term to describe the movement of funds to an institution from the receiving institution's online banking interface. So, in your case, you'd need to set up the account link at Tangerine, which is all electronic.

Conversely, "push"ing funds involves sending funds to an institution from the sending institution's online banking interface.

Also, a quick note, "pull"ing funds may involve a "hold" period on all or a portion of the funds transferred, subject to your specified "access to deposited funds" limit (if they have that), for the standard period as it's basically like a cheque and they need to verify that the funds won't be returned NSF. "Push"ing funds has no hold period as it's like a direct deposit (i.e., guaranteed funds that cannot be called back according to Payments Canada rules) but you generally don't earn "double interest"

Hope that clarifies!

Generally, I almost always "pull" funds between accounts (from the receiving institution) unless I need immediate access to all funds right away then I "push". "Pull"ing funds also has typically higher transfer limits by FIs as the FI is "receiving" those funds and they get to be held. "Push"ing funds may also mean the funds leave your sending account from the date you hit "submit" and be "in transit" until it posts to your receiving account so you do lose 1-2 business days interest on those funds.

That said, if you have a lot of accounts: what I'd do is set up all your accounts with EQ Bank and Hubert Financial and that way you can still "pull" funds to Tangerine from within Tangerine but, if the funds aren't at EQ Bank or Hubert Financial, you can "push" the funds out to EQ Bank or Hubert (so no "hold" period; by the way, Hubert also links accounts like EQ Bank, Tangerine and even PayPal, for that matter), lose 1-2 business days' interest, and then "pull" them into Tangerine.

Cheers,
Doug

RicksBank said

If I decide to link EQ at Tangerine anyway, do we know for sure what all the magic transit numbers are?

EQ: 80002 623
Tangerine: 00152 614

Doug said

That said, if you have a lot of accounts: what I'd do is set up all your accounts with EQ Bank and Hubert Financial and that way you can still "pull" funds to Tangerine from within Tangerine but, if the funds aren't at EQ Bank or Hubert Financial, you can "push" the funds out to EQ Bank or Hubert (so no "hold" period; by the way, Hubert also links accounts like EQ Bank, Tangerine and even PayPal, for that matter), lose 1-2 business days' interest, and then "pull" them into Tangerine.

Just a reminder in case somebody doesn't know, Hubert allows 30 linked accounts (including deleted ones though), and EQ allows 10. I have all of mine linked at Hubert (11), but some of these banks I've never used after opening (I was looking for FATCA-free banks at the time and the institutions didn't yet know what FATCA was).

According to my notes, my whole list of the number of linked accounts allowed:

AcceleRate: 1
Achieva: at least 2
Canadian Direct Financial: 3
EQ: 10
Hubert: 30
Implicity: no limit
MAXA: doesn't have linked accounts
Outlook: don't know
Peoples: more than 1
Tangerine: 3

RicksBank said

Doug said

RicksBank said
Tangerine only allows 3 linked accounts and I already have 2 that I want to keep. I didn't want to use up the last one on EQ since I can now pull from the EQ end. That said, I do see that the 2 days of double interest on my amount would have been about $15.

Ah, okay. Just curious, though, what are the three FIs/accounts you have linked with Tangerine? Are any of them two accounts for the same FI?

At Tangerine I have linked my RBC account that I've had since 1971, and our joint TD account that we've had since 1984. At Hubert, I've linked these 2 plus 9 or 10 of the highest-paying banks listed on this website. I opened so many back in early 2014 hoping one or more would be FATCA-free (AcceleRate, Achieva and Implicity are), but I won't go into that here...

If I decide to link EQ at Tangerine anyway, do we know for sure what all the magic transit numbers are?

Thanks to Winnie for posting those transit/institution numbers. It's worth noting that sometimes, though, these online institutions use multiple transits (same institution number) so you should usually get the information direct from the institution, either from their public website or when you login to your online banking or by calling the institution directly. Utilizing the wrong transit number can lead to payment delays/possible returned payments.

Your comment about AcceleRate, Achieva and Implicity being "FATCA free," that's likely only because they've not yet completed their "clean-up exercise". That'll yet change in due course (i.e., next 12-18 months, at most) - and so it should.

I actually wholly support the aims of FATCA as I've seen first hand a number of past clients that held dual citizenship in the U.S. that didn't report their W-9 status with the FI and avoided paying their rightful U.S. taxes to the IRS for years. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for such dual citizens, especially the retired dual citizen seniors who are collecting partial OAS, CPP as well as Social Security and then not reporting their Canadian interest and dividend income to the U.S. I hope they ultimately face still fines. I do, however, have some sympathy for working age U.S. citizens who are permanent or temporary residents of Canada but the former, they're just "sucking from the proverbial teats, both of them in this case," or perhaps to correct the metaphor a bit, "two teats from separate parents simultaneously".

Cheers,
Doug

RicksBank is quite correct about issues affecting people who are dual citizens without having a meaningful connection to the US.
Further, ridding themselves of unwanted US citizenship is a financial burden. I have been told it costs about $2000 in various fees and takes a long time to process - no doubt even longer going forward..

I am not a US citizen either, but have been told this by people who are stuck.

Ooops, I guess I inspired this off-topic discussion about US citizenship and taxes. I don't need or want it to drag on, but I don't like to see incomplete or inaccurate information go unaddressed here. It's my chance to maybe contribute back to the folks who have helped me here since I'm not an expert on any banking issues. I think it's important to clarify some details since chances are good there are people on this website who either don't know they're US citizens or don't realize that as US citizen or green card holder, you are bound to file tax returns to the IRS on your world-wide income for the rest of your life no matter where you live. And, since FATCA came into effect July 1 2014, it's harder to hide from the US.

As Norman1 stated, the cost of relinquishing or renouncing US citizenship is US$2350. But, when you give up the taint of US citizenship there are 3 things you have to certify to ensure you are not a "covered expatriate" which brings in the exit tax and other nasty issues:
1) Your average annual net income tax [NOTE: TAX bill, not income] for the 5 years ending before the date of expatriation or termination of residency is more than a specified amount that is adjusted for inflation ($151,000 for 2012, $155,000 for 2013, $157,000 for 2014, and $160,000 for 2015).
2) Your net worth is $2 million or more on the date of your expatriation or termination of residency.
3) You fail to certify on Form 8854 that you have complied with all U.S. federal tax obligations for the 5 years preceding the date of your expatriation or termination of residency.

If you were born a dual citizen, then only #3 above applies to you. The US citizenship rules and tax rules have changed many times sine 1952, sometimes retroactively. It's not simple. Many paid professionals will only quote you the current laws and don't know the laws that were in effect at the time they mattered to you. Also, the US Department of State (and probably the IRS) pick and choose what old laws they accept or enforce. Even the US consuls in Canada and around the world were ignorant of many of the citizenship issues going back to the 1960's but became more educated starting in 2013/2014 when the flood of relinquishments and renunciations began due to enforcement of FBAR filing, border crossing/passport issues, and of course FATCA.

I've spoken with people who have paid anywhere between $3000 and $60,000 for expert help in filing those 5 years of taxes (and FBARs, etc). At least one was financially ruined by trying to do the right thing and "come clean" with all filing obligations.

Another gray area is what if you were born in Canada to a US parent? Are you automatically a US citizen? Or are you only a US citizen if your parents registered your birth to document you as one? I'm not sure this has been determined with certainty. However, if you never registered as a US citizen and your place of birth was not the US, many people are comfortable not doing anything about the US taint because the US doesn't know you exist and FATCA won't root you out unless you have already volunteered the information to your financial institution.

Lastly, note that some Republicans have been against FATCA all along and there have been attempts to have it repealed in Congress. With Trump getting elected, this has more of a chance of happening now. Some Republicans are against citizenship-based taxation which of course is the root problem. Perhaps Trump's tax reform will finally address this insanity as well as it all does more financial harm than good to US interests.

Don't seek paid professional help before doing your own research. A good place to start is at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/

Norman1 said

There is an US$2,350 fee charged by the U.S. State Department to process an application to renounce citizenship. The long processing time is from the backlog and the limited resources allocated to handling these kind of requests.

More details in the February 2016 Globe & Mail article Delays, costs mount for Canadians renouncing U.S. citizenship.

If one were to renounce, it is better to do it before one reaches US$2 million net worth to avoid US exit taxes.

I don't think paying "back taxes" is a requirement for renouncing citizenship to become effective, though they can still try and collect.

Cheers,
Doug

Doug said
I guess I don't really get why you would only want to deal with so-called FATCA-exempt FIs as a non-U.S. person? Seems like you're limiting yourself.

All of my savings and investments _are_ in FATCA-reporting financial institutions, so I'm not limited.

Doug said
I don't think paying "back taxes" is a requirement for renouncing citizenship to become effective, though they can still try and collect.

Agreed. When you renounce, you sign a form with many points, one of which says you understand that renouncing does not sever your ties with the IRS or your existing/past tax liabilities. The Department of State is mandated to send your renunciation to the IRS. Will the IRS _try_ to collect? Who knows. Can they recognize you as being tax-delinquent if/when you enter the US? Who knows.

We do know that the CRA says "the CRA will not assist the IRS to collect your U.S. tax liability if you were a Canadian citizen when the liability arose. This is true whether or not you were also a U.S. citizen at the time.".

BTW, I should stress that nothing I'm writing about is in anyway condoning tax cheats. The problem is that law-abiding tax-paying Canadians who happen to be US Persons are getting screwed over by the US because, again, the US is the only country in the world that has citizenship-based taxation, and it just doesn't fit the global economy and mobility that exists now compared to back in 1864 when the US implemented it. Oh, of course, the US has modern justification for its continuance but there is a growing number of US experts who are seeing how it is ultimately hurting US interests.

Norman1 said
I think in most cases there's no back U.S. taxes to be paid.

For working stiffs with simple finances, often, but the penalties for failing to file are there whether or not there are taxes to be paid.

Norman1 said
That fear of having to pay US back taxes sounds to me like scaremongering, from those who are looking for ways to relieve the unwary of $60,000 as fees for preparing one's US tax returns and the renounciation paperwork.

These people are often called "compliance condors" and yes, exactly, they are looking for ways to charge you big bucks. The fear is real, and it's 3-fold: back taxes, non-filing penalties, and being deemed a "covered expat".

Careful with the wording: there is very little paperwork for renunciation itself and professional (accounting) help is not required for the renunciation. Where one might need professional help is if your net worth is more than $2 million. Apparently the $800/hr, $1000/form people have ways to get your net worth under $2 million so you aren't a covered expat. I know a woman who was quoted $18,000 to have her back filing done by a "downtown" accounting firm. She got it done elsewhere for $3000, and her income was purely pension, CPP, OAS. No investments.

Norman1 said
World income needs to be reported to the IRS. But, according to IRS: Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, US citizens domiciled abroad have a foreign-earned income exclusion of around US$100,000!

If you are a U.S. citizen or a resident alien of the United States and you live abroad, you are taxed on your worldwide income. However, you may qualify to exclude from income up to an amount of your foreign earnings that is adjusted annually for inflation ($92,900 for 2011, $95,100 for 2012, $97,600 for 2013, $99,200 for 2014 and $100,800 for 2015). In addition, you can exclude or deduct certain foreign housing amounts.

I think that's more than enough to cover the CPP, GIS, and OAS any dual US/Canada citizen would receive from Canada.

Nope, the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion is for "earned income". This is income from employment or business income. It does not include pension or annuity income, or interest, dividends and capital gains. The "foreign housing amounts" are related to when your employer provides housing for you.

Back when it didn't matter, we Canadians figured since our taxes are higher than US taxes, we would never owe US taxes. Well, this is only true for earned income. A tax-filing dual citizen in Canada has to pay tax on capital gains from selling a home, RESPs, RDSPs, maybe TFSAs, and I'm sure much more that I'm not aware of. The real killer is when you retire and have only pension and investment income. CPP is finally handled specially by a tax treaty, but not much else. Canadian mutual funds are considered a PFIC and are taxed punitively such that the tax is usually more than the return on your investment. The US investment industry lobbied Congress for this gem, to stop US homelanders from investing outside of the US. Problem is, a tax-paying Accidental American dual-citizen in Canada becomes a 2nd-class Canadian and can't work, live and plan for retirement like other Canadians.

There is a law suit underway against the CRA and the Canadian Government claiming Charter of Rights and Freedoms violations from the signing and implementation of FATCA in Canada. It's moving slowly. Why did Canada sign on to FATCA? Same reason as every other country. Extortion. The US threatened a 30% withholding penalty on all transactions with the US if they didn't. It worked. FATCA compliance and implementation is costing billions and billions of dollars worldwide. And guess what, the IRS is not paying for it. The cost is usually quoted at about $200 million PER FINANCIAL INSTITUTION. Trouble getting an extra 0.5% interest from your bank? No surprise, they have FATCA compliance costs! Maybe since the IRS was so successful in getting the entire Planet Earth to fund the cost of their world-wide crack down on American Tax Cheats, Trump got his idea to get Mexico to pay for The Wall?

Married to a US spouse? Guess what, all your joint account information is sent to the IRS by the CRA and FATCA. Own a business and have an Accidental American with signing authority in your company? Guess what, you're on the hook for sending your business account information to the IRS.

If anybody tells me they are happy to pay an accountant $500 to $1000 a year to file their US taxes, I tell them they don't have enough information and understanding of the big picture.

Norman1 said
I also think one should not underestimate the value of US citizenship. One of the benefits that comes with it is the ability to legally work in the US. If I had US citizenship, I wouldn't renounce it just to save the effort of having to file a second tax return.  

That line of thinking was true until 2010 when the bankrupt US decided to start enforcing tax compliance from US citizens abroad, hitting them with hefty non-filing fines. For example, failing to file FBARs (which isn't even a tax form!) gets you an impressive fine. Well, the fine was reduced in 2015 to not exceed "100 percent of the highest aggregate balance of all unreported foreign financial accounts during the years under examination." Previously, the fine was per account, per year for up to 6 years and could be up to 300% of the money balance that you didn't report. BALANCE, not INCOME!

Cross-border tax specialists who don't want you as a client will tell you that if you are a dual citizen living in working in Canada, you cannot properly save and plan for retirement in Canada. The US tax differences will eat you alive.

US citizens living in the US have NONE of these tax issues or invasion of privacy regarding accounts local to where they live. The US tax system just does not allow for maintaining citizenship and living abroad permanently.

Nope:

To Get Your Special Rate:
• On January 4, 2017, we’ll add up the balances in each of your Tangerine Savings Accounts, Tangerine RSP Savings Accounts and Tangerine TFSA Savings Accounts, to get your total balances per Account Type.

• From January 5, 2017 to March 31, 2017, you’ll earn your special interest rate on up to $500,000 in new deposits that raise your total Applicable Account Type* balances above what they were on January 4th. All other deposits will earn the applicable Posted Rate.