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Email this9:11 am
February 22, 2013
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Here is the text from an email from ING this morning:
"On Tuesday, November 5th, we're having a unique, not to be missed event where we will be making an exciting announcement! As a valued Client we'd like you to be one of the first to hear our big news and you're invited to take part via live-stream.
"Join us live, as we share our announcement with our employees and you. Go to ingdirect.ca/event at 1:30pm ET on November 5th to participate.
"We know you're going to be as excited as we are. "
So, what are your guesses as to what they will be announcing?
My bet is that the ING name is being replaced with some form of the BNS name. Minor deal. A bigger
deal would be if ING customers will be able to use BNS branches.
GS
1:59 pm
January 30, 2009
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A bigger deal still would be a consistent rate over 2.5%!
3:43 pm
February 22, 2013
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James said
A bigger deal still would be a consistent rate over 2.5%!
Yes - but I am resigned to low interest rates. Every penny extra they pay me (and you) is a penny less they have for their shareholders. They set interest rates the same way we move from institution to institution.
Some one over at Red Flag suggested an ING brander credit card.
As an aside - the Florida newspapers are filled with ads for 1.05% 18 month CDs (our GICs). The 1.05% rate seems to be the cream of the crap (sic).
GS
6:47 pm
December 12, 2009
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I have to respectfully disagree with you that ING DIRECT Canada customers should have in-branch access to Scotiabank branches. This goes completely counter to its direct, branchless banking philosophy. Not only that, it would not be fair to Scotiabank customers who pay monthly service charges for ING DIRECT Canada customers to have a greater level of service than their Scotiabank customer counterparts.
It's possible and more probable, actually, that ING DIRECT Canada would switch its ATM network from The EXCHANGE to Scotiabank's, but that would be the extent of the integration. They won't keep both ATM networks; it'll be one or the other.
You and other posters are quite right, actually, in that this announcement will be more than just a "teaser" promo interest rate on deposits. A new name would be nice and would actually be a fairly big announcement - Anatol van Hohn, Scotiabank Group Head Canadian Banking, and ING DIRECT Canada CEO Peter Aceto's direct manager, hinted the announcement would likely come in December. So, I tend to think an ING DIRECT Canada credit card (either MasterCard or possibly VISA, if Scotiabank doesn't want to become a triple card issuer) is more likely for Nov. 5th. That said, operationally and strategically, it makes most sense to give the company a new brand & name THEN bring out a credit card. 
Cheers,
Doug
6:30 am
February 22, 2013
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Doug:
I read the National Post on an iPad and for the past two or three days have been seeing pages where there appears to be nothing but white space for half the vertical page. National Post's Newsreader app sometimes misses converting a photo so this was not too disconcerting the first time.
Yesterday, after seeing it for the second or third time, I scrolled right to the bottom of the page and discovered ING's logo. I suspect that Nov 5 or 6 all that white space will be filled with advertising from the announcement.
GS
9:14 am
December 12, 2009
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Thanks for the "hat tip", Greg, and for that information of the full-page ads in the National Post iPad app version (which should be a true copy of the printed paper, I'd assume).
This seems to confirm that the Nov. 5th announcement will be the name change and official launch of the rebranding campaign. I'd be very surprised if it isn't. We may get a new credit card at that time as well, and I initially thought a MasterCard but given Scotia's preference for VISA and American Express I'm going to go with a VISA, but they may want to space out that announcement to give them another big announcement in one or two month's time. 
Cheers,
Doug
5:11 pm
October 27, 2013
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FWIW, PC Financial's banking division is a division of CIBC and PCF clients can access their funds at CIBC ATMs. I don't see anything particularly onerous about that... on the understanding that is ALL that PCF customers do to piggyback on CIBC brick and mortar. I'd think BNS would want to do something similar with ING.
9:20 am
October 31, 2013
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I'm pretty sure they're announcing the new branding for ING Direct. I just checked the Canadian Intellectual Property Office for trademarks the Bank of Nova Scotia registered this year. They registered the following trademarks in October:
- Tangerine Bank
- Forward Bank
- Thrive Bank
- Veva Bank
Clearly they are going to use one of these, but they have left their options open. I think it'll end up being Thrive Bank, considering that's the name of their chequing account.
9:27 am
December 12, 2009
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Please re-read what I wrote, AltaRed. You write that you disagree with what I said about it ING DIRECT Canada customers benefiting from Scotia's branch network not being too onerous. That's not what I wrote. In fact, Greg had referred to allowing ING DIRECT Canada customers in-branch access to Scotiabank branches; that's something they'll never allow. Moreover, they use completely different systems, software, applications, data centres and contact centres than Scotiabank, not to mention they are a wholly-owned subsidiary and separate CDIC member from The Bank of Nova Scotia (their parent company). PC Financial is simply a series of "branch transits" of CIBC.
I do, however, believe a Scotiabank ATM sharing agreement with ING DIRECT Canada customers is in the works, but it will be at the expense of its affiliation with The EXCHANGE Network, I suspect. Scotiabank won't want to instantly become the biggest ATM partner in The EXCHANGE Network and won't want to either (a) give The EXCHANGE Network users surcharge-free access to Scotiabank ATMs nor (b) want to give ING DIRECT Canada customers access to both The EXCHANGE Network and Scotiabank. In the short term, The EXCHANGE Network will be the sole network for ING DIRECT Canada users. In the medium- to long-term, it'll be replaced with Scotiabank. With Remote Deposit Capture, it's also not necessary to be part of that extra network.
Cheers,
Doug
4:23 pm
October 27, 2013
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I actually was not responding to your post at all Doug. I was simply commenting that I would not personally object to ING Direct having access to BNS ATMs but not access to the rest of BNS brick and mortar services. I am aware PCF is not separately CDIC insured from CIBC.
4:54 pm
February 22, 2013
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I wish I had checked the spelling of "announcement" before I started this thread! 
5:13 pm
May 15, 2007
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GS said
I wish I had checked the spelling of "announcement" before I started this thread!
Fixed!
1:07 pm
July 10, 2011
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If Scotia doesn't want to start a mass exodus from ING - Start with allowing use of the exchange/scotia machines for all cardholders is the best way to appease people.. Similiar to PC Financial and CIBC.. It's what I've wanted from the start.. It would become a really good ATM competitor to TD.. Wont beat them by any stretch but you would have alot more of options..
Higher rates are always nice.. Bonus for existing customers would be nice!..
1:16 pm
December 12, 2009
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The EXCHANGE Network isn't actually that large anymore, anyway. I think all of the "Big 5" banks beat them now on their own in terms of number of ATMs, with the possible exception of one. In recent years, they've seen a rather strong exodus, particularly by B.C.-based credit unions, leaving The EXCHANGE Network in favour of sticking to the credit union-only Acculink "ding free" ATM network (which is larger than The EXCHANGE Network because it includes all credit unions, including those in the prairie provinces).
If Scotia were to allow both ING DIRECT Canada and Scotiabank cardholders access to both The EXCHANGE Network and the Scotiabank ATM Network, it would likely overwhelm their branch-based deposit processing staff having to process a bunch of credit union and smaller bank deposits. I just can't see it.
That said, if Scotiabank switched ING DIRECT Canada to Scotiabank ATM Network, that on its own would be a larger and more geographically diverse ATM network than The EXCHANGE. ING DIRECT Canada really went with The EXCHANGE because they had no other choice, really. With Remote Deposit Capture, their reliance on The EXCHANGE is almost nil now.
Cheers,
Doug
9:21 pm
February 22, 2013
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Doug:
Having read all the thoughts about networks, credit cards, etc. I am now more convinced this will just be a name change.
I suspect they need/want new/more clients for the ING side and so a name change which "links" them to the BNS or Scotia brand names makes most sense. As I recall the original deal closed November 15, 2012 and allowed for Scotia's use of the ING brand name for 18 months.
A November 5 announcement allows for a 6 month advertising transition.
We here all know about ING and the Scotia purchase. There are likely all sorts of regular folks who couldn't tell you the story.
GS
12:12 am
December 12, 2009
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Absolutely, Greg, I completely agree with you. I diverged a bit onto the Exchange ATM network versus a Scotiabank ATM network only because other users were taking this thread in that direction.
I do think - and have always thought - an announcement on the name change would come by the end of the year, likely in early December or sometime in November. You're right - this does allow them a six-month co-branded advertising campaign transition, something that I'd speculated on ING DIRECT Canada's Facebook "wall". Any announcements on ATM network changes or a possible credit card will come later, likely in the new year.
One possibility, if the new name isn't Tangerine Bank, THRiVE Bank, Veva Bank or Scotia Direct, is ING DIRECT Canada may not actually announce the new name on November 5th. In true democratic and social media fashion, they may announce several possibilities for names and put it to a 30- or 60-day voting period on Twitter and Facebook. We shall see!
Cheers,
Doug
1:00 am
October 21, 2013
Online
One thing I feel confident about is that the "change" will be more in terms of hype than increasing interest rates. ING has spent so much on advertising and promotion in recent years that it gives me indigestion.
Different name, same low-ish rates. If it weren't that their systems are very convenient, well managed, and easy to use, I wouldn't bother with them at all. They're good for money that you need to move back and forth frequently.
That said, didn't Air Canada use the name Tangerine a while back? Maybe they still do, as I am out of touch with that market. It does make me wonder about a possible alliance though.
5:44 am
July 10, 2011
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I just wrote a huge response and lost it..
Based on the #s scotia and ING could have one of the largest ATM networks in the country next to TD.. It can only happen with Exchange and Scotia partnering for the betterment of all Candians etc.. This would be a first for Canada and place the Exchange / Scotia back on the forefront of Canadian banking.. Great way to challenge TD.. Nobody seems to want to..
Name change is required due to license expiration.. My assumption ScotiaDirect - easiest to maintain branding..
If Scotia doesn't intend to almagamate ING completly then I can't see Scotia staff processing Exchange stuff.. "ScotiaDirect" would handle this end.. Carry overs from ING..
That said, if Scotiabank switched ING DIRECT Canada to Scotiabank ATM Network, that on its own would be a larger and more geographically diverse ATM network than The EXCHANGE. ING DIRECT Canada really went with The EXCHANGE because they had no other choice, really. With Remote Deposit Capture, their reliance on The EXCHANGE is almost nil now.
The #s indicate this isn't true.. The cost to switch these machines would certainly lead to fees for converted customers.. ING has very very few branded exchange machines.. It wouldn't even have a material impact on Scotia's ATM count.. I'm not sure what you mean by zero reliance on The exchange.. The Cheque-In Feature functions via the exchange.. They couldn't do anything without the exchange right now..
If they do decide to carry over ING onto the Scotia network I will probably close my account.. I have zero intentions of being feed for anything.. Needless to say this announcement has a bigger impact then one would like..
10:06 am
December 12, 2009
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Thanks for the reply, Yatti. Your insights and comments are always appreciated and welcome.
I thought I'd clear up a few misconceptions. As far as I'm aware, ING DIRECT Canada's remote deposit capture technology they're calling "ChequeIn" has nothing to do with The EXCHANGE Network. According to the press release they issued when it launched, it relies on the remote deposit capture technology framework built (and, presumably, patented by) NCR Corporation. NCR does also have a very large ATM manufacturing and servicing business, to be sure, but they have so many businesses (they originally made old-fashioned cash registers in the 1800s). They're one of the leaders in remote deposit capture.
What I meant by my statement is, when ING DIRECT Canada originally had launched its THRiVE Chequing Account, they needed an ATM network capable of accepting deposits and processing PIN changes. As they were a bank, they couldn't join the larger credit union-only "ding free" Acculink ATM network, so that really only left them two options: (a) paying one of the "Big Five" banks to use their ATM network and process their customers' deposits like HSBC did for a number of years with BMO ATMs or (b) join the surcharge-free ATM network, The EXCHANGE.
Once they launched "ChequeIn" in "beta" last year, and officially this year, that gave them a whole new way of instantly accepting deposits and made their reliance on The EXCHANGE that much less (although, admittedly, they still need a surcharge-free ATM network for cash withdrawals).
One of the requirements to The EXCHANGE membership is that customers of other Exchange members be able to use your ATMs surcharge-free and for deposits/PIN changes. This would be a huge burden for Scotiabank as, on their own, they easily have 2400 full-service ATMs (the current equivalent to The EXCHANGE) and when you factor in Scotiabank cash dispensing ATMs at Shell stations or 7-Eleven convenience stores, it approaches 3000 (TD only has about 3600 full-service and cash dispensing only ATMs, although they aren't the biggest - that number goes to RBC with in excess of 4000 ATMs in Canada). All I'm saying is, Scotiabank could achieve the same ends for ING DIRECT Canada by switching them from The EXCHANGE to Scotiabank ATMs (which are better located geographically as The Exchange has almost zero presence in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba). They don't need to retain The EXCHANGE membership and thus add to their burden of having all these Exchange member customers flocking in droves to their more conveniently-located ATMs.
They may, however, keep ING DIRECT Canada totally separate and on The EXCHANGE ATM network only - no access to Scotiabank ATMs. We'll get an indication of which direction they're going. If they retain ING DIRECT Canada as a separate, wholly-owned subsidiary with a "Tangerine" or "Veva" name, I'll say it'll be the latter. If they go with Scotia Direct, it'll be the former and make it more like PC Financial is to CIBC.
We shall see in about 25 minutes!
Cheers,
Doug
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