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The role of marketing reps on this site
April 12, 2016
11:56 am
Loonie
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I am wondering what members think about the arrival of alleged marketing reps from financial institutions on the forum.

I will say outright that I am uncomfortable with it. I don't feel this is the place for PR and marketing opportunities for FIs. I understood this forum was for consumers. Gibberish like "our rates are not promos; we'll always be competitive" etc are meaningless and annoying, and are really promotional statements. We don't need to hear that here.

If they want to take our concerns and respond to them by improving THEIR website and other media, well and good. That would be a good use of their time, and that is the right place for them, at their expense. If I want to read them, I can. And if they should say anything worth knowing there, I am very confident that a consumer who is a member of the forum will point it out.

I also didn't appreciate being directly contacted by the Alterna rep through the internal messaging system on the forum, asking me to do something to help them. If I want to communicate directly with Alterna, I will do so. For them to use this forum to do so is not acceptable to me. I get enough junk email as it is.

April 12, 2016
12:36 pm
AltaRed
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I was looking for the rules for the forum. I would think that any marketing reps must at least identify themselves, and additionally not solicit business on the site.

Those are black and white rules on many forums. Forums I have been involved with 'automatically ban' anyone violating such rules.

April 12, 2016
12:45 pm
Peter
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We've had zero tolerance if a marketing rep didn't identify themselves. Beyond that there are no unofficial or official rules yet.

I don't mind if they provide useful answers on the forum. It does become a gray area for anything beyond that, so I'm happy to see what everybody thinks, so we can post some official rules.

April 12, 2016
4:03 pm
Peseta
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I love this site and would hate to see it turn into anything other than what it is: a forum for genuine and non-biased consumer-to-consumer dialogue and info exchange. If banks want to view the discussion as a means of listening to their clients, thats great. But to have them promote products and use this site as their marketing tool, no. No. It will turn this place into what it was never meant to be.

Funny thing you should post this now. I was just thinking to myself a couple of days ago if some of the posters here were actually bank reps. Sometimes it's too obvious, isn't it? :-)

I've found out so much good information on this forum that I can't thank you enough, Peter, Loonie and the rest of the gang!

April 12, 2016
4:24 pm
fabafter50
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I'm with you Peseta, I'm very appreciative of all the input on this forum, a big thank you to all! As far as marketing reps, if they feel the need to comment, they should be identified from which bank they are from. They are quite obvious with the lack of common sense comments and the fear mongering. I'd just like to know which bank they are so I won't go there.

April 12, 2016
5:07 pm
Bill
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Peter, I agree that they may have some useful info. And as soon as someone tells me about rules I ask "what's your ability to enforce them?" They'll just not identify themselves, go "underground" and leave out the obvious comments that would tag them. Then we'll be reading stuff that has an agenda and we won't know it, and maybe that's worse than just leaving it as is and asking them to identify themselves, as you do now. In general I'm conservative-minded so I'm against censorship or shutting down people whose words or ideas I don't like, I'm quite happy to let everyone have their say and I'll figure out what I want to do.
(Lonnie, I didn't know there's a way someone can email us using this site - how does that work? I agree that's annoying but maybe you can disable that info - ?)

April 12, 2016
5:28 pm
AltaRed
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There isn't to my knowledge. There is the ability in Profile to receive private messages, and an option to be emailed by this site when a private message arrives. But no direct email best I can tell.

April 12, 2016
7:03 pm
kanaka
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Loonie good point. And to Peter and everyone else I have enjoyed this site hopefully I have provided good info that some one may use. We "may" have to read between the lines and ask more questions to get some ideas, guidance and support for our own personal finances etc.

Do you remember the rep from Hubert that silently faded away? The Alterna responses are ok to me. I only skim them as I don't see any use for Alterna and don't know if a BC resident could apply. I am in a wind down of FI's as well. The rep has identified themselve as a rep in each reply and has good knowledge of clipping the concerns and answering and clarifying some our "assumptions".

Any rep should provide their real name, location, and be authorised by the FI to handle the responses. Is there not a way to set up a signature to show at the bottom of any and all replies?

Lastly who knows....is Alterna really a rep or a fake wannabe?

April 13, 2016
5:06 am
Loonie
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AltaRed said

There isn't to my knowledge. There is the ability in Profile to receive private messages, and an option to be emailed by this site when a private message arrives. But no direct email best I can tell.

Yes, that's how this person reached me. I got an email telling me to click to receive the message. I want to keep this function active as I do hear from other forum members from time to time with whom I am normally happy to correspond.

I truly think this Alterna person doesn't know the difference any more between "clarifying" and PR. He or she is so enmeshed in it that they can't contain their gush of meaningless words. Let's leave those on THEIR website, where they belong.

I wouldn't really mind either if they answered a simple question in simple words and left it at that, but they are incapable of that. It's their JOB to gush with meaningless verbiage.

If it were practical, I would say that they could make their posts if they want but that they would be edited down to the facts by a moderator (if there are any solid facts to be had). But who wants to be bothered with that? Nobody.

Accordingly, I think we should just tell them to go away and work on updating their own websites so that all the answers to all our questions are right there where they belong and where we can consult them.

April 14, 2016
6:29 am
Norman1
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In addition to Alterna Bank, representatives from Hubert and CDIC have participated here.

I think they should continued to be allowed here if they participate in the same way that the rest of us on the consumer side of the table do. That is, they try to provide useful information about the products with minimal promotional fluff and hype.

The substance behind what people write here is more important than who they work for.

April 14, 2016
7:03 am
Keith1
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I agree with Norman1.

April 14, 2016
7:41 am
Bill
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I agree with Norman1 too! There IS some useful information provided by the reps and we're all big girls and boys, we can figure out what we want to pay attention to and what we want to ignore. The answer to being irritated is not censorship, it's to move on. Beside, there's no way to verify anyone's online identity - I could be Justin Trudeau for all you folks know (though my wife would turf me if I was!) so, for example, the "Alterna rep" could actually be from a competitor who's trying to cast aspersions on Alterna by irritating some of us via cheesy marketing clichés, overt promotion, etc., who knows?

April 15, 2016
1:29 am
Loonie
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Norman1 said

In addition to Alterna Bank, representatives from Hubert and CDIC have participated here.

I think they should continued to be allowed here if they participate in the same way that the rest of us on the consumer side of the table do. That is, they try to provide useful information about the products with minimal promotional fluff and hype.

The substance behind what people write here is more important than who they work for.

The problem is that they are incapable of talking without promotional fluff and hype. It's their JOB to do so.

If they could restrict themselves to "substance", that would be fine. However, as Bill points out, we don't know if they are legit or not, so what is the value of any "substance" unless it comes with a link to the website of the FI in question which verifies it.

Thus I return to my original recommendation that they be asked to spend their time updating their own websites. All problems then solved.

April 15, 2016
5:06 pm
Peter
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I've updated the forum rules, especially this item:

Do not promote your product, service, or business on this forum. This includes but is definitely not limited to announcements about new products and rates. The moderators reserve the right to determine what is considered promotional. Representatives from financial institutions are welcome, but you must 1) disclose your affiliation; and 2) stick to explaining the facts and helping others.

April 16, 2016
7:11 pm
Loonie
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thanks, Peter.
I think people may be wondering if you have any way of verifying, or make any attempt to verify, whether these people really have any authority to speak for the institution in question.

April 16, 2016
7:21 pm
AltaRed
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No way of knowing any of that, even if they use their institution's email address (that an Administrator/Moderator can see). Anonymous forums are just that, anonymous and content needs to be treated accordingly. No one can vet anything. The only thing one can do is, over time, observe the posting track record of select forum members and put more weight on those accordingly.

April 17, 2016
1:58 am
Loonie
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AltaRed said

No way of knowing any of that, even if they use their institution's email address (that an Administrator/Moderator can see). Anonymous forums are just that, anonymous and content needs to be treated accordingly. No one can vet anything. The only thing one can do is, over time, observe the posting track record of select forum members and put more weight on those accordingly.

That being the case, would it not be reasonable to require anyone purporting to represent a FI to provide links which would verify any information they give us? Or perhaps put in a reminder at the beginning of their posts reminding readers that the information has not been verified.

I realize we don't require this of everyone else, but the rest of us don't claim to represent anything other than ourselves.

April 17, 2016
6:58 am
Bill
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Sure, Loonie, Peter can "require" whatever he wants. How to enforce? And I think we're all aware anything posted here hasn't been verified for us by someone else.

April 17, 2016
11:39 am
Loonie
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I have been trying to think of solutions that are manageable.
This one is easy to enforce. State the expectation in the rules. If no links for verification, delete the post. Any member can "report" posts that don't follow the rules to the moderator.
They can't have it both ways. If they want to be seen as representing the FI (which is the group I am talking about) and want us to believe them, then this is a reasonable request.

April 17, 2016
11:43 am
AltaRed
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There are no viable options that are workable, even with substantial moderator effort. Implementing what you suggest simply drives the reps underground. That is the nature of public discussion forums. The 'only' thing one can enforce is solicitation of business and cheerleading at a level that even the most casual reader can identify.

I have been involved with forums for years. It is the way it is.

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