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10:36 pm
July 16, 2024
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1:36 pm
October 27, 2013
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Why? There are only about 6 each of Canadian domiciled CAD and USD ETFs and yields constantly change as they do for CAD and USD money market mutual funds.
It would seem to be an endless and fruitless task to update yields perhaps on a weekly basis. Those who are in the market for those ETFs will already be tracking them.
8:36 pm
July 16, 2024
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Your reply feels cantankerous? There exist many more than "6 each of Canadian domiciled CAD and USD ETFs".
HPYT.U — Harvest Premium Yield Treasury ETF
HYLD.U — Hamilton Enhanced U.S. Covered Call ETF
MNU.U — Purpose USD Cash Management Fund
LPAY.U — Global X Long-Term U.S. Treasury Premium Yield ETF
MPAY.U — Global X Mid-Term U.S. Treasury Premium Yield ETF
SPAY.U — Global X Short-Term U.S. Treasury Premium Yield ETF
UBIL.U — Global X 0-3 Month U.S. T-Bill ETF
It would seem to be an endless and fruitless task to update yields perhaps on a weekly basis. Those who are in the market for those ETFs will already be tracking them.
Couldn't you asseverate this of our HISA and GIC charts?
5:42 am
April 21, 2022
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StackExchange said
Your reply feels cantankerous? There exist many more than "6 each of Canadian domiciled CAD and USD ETFs".HPYT.U — Harvest Premium Yield Treasury ETF
HYLD.U — Hamilton Enhanced U.S. Covered Call ETF
MNU.U — Purpose USD Cash Management Fund
LPAY.U — Global X Long-Term U.S. Treasury Premium Yield ETF
MPAY.U — Global X Mid-Term U.S. Treasury Premium Yield ETF
SPAY.U — Global X Short-Term U.S. Treasury Premium Yield ETF
UBIL.U — Global X 0-3 Month U.S. T-Bill ETF
It would seem to be an endless and fruitless task to update yields perhaps on a weekly basis. Those who are in the market for those ETFs will already be tracking them.
Couldn't you asseverate this of our HISA and GIC charts?
Have you thought of building your own chart and having it hosted on cloud site with open public access? You could then come back to this site and post the link. Of course you would ideally keep it up to date, I'm not sure if there's a way to scrape the data daily for updates.
6:03 am
August 4, 2010
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Some time ago I was playing around with some programming tools I use for work, and as a testbed to try them out I've got some code that scrapes some things like ISA rates. I think I had it pulling getting some of the cash ETFs as well. I doubt I'll ever have it at a point where I let run automatically each day and build a webpage or anything, but if I ever do I'll link to it from here.
You have to be careful with the cash ETFs and MMFs. They'll report various combinations of "yield" - net, gross, annualized distribution, 12-month trailing etc. Make sure you compare apples to apples, and know what you are seeing.
7:15 am
October 27, 2013
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StackExchange said
Couldn't you asseverate this of our HISA and GIC charts?
Not really. Each FI's deposit rate often stays the same for months on end.
MMFs and Cash ETFs, as flow through entities, can have a different yield each day. No chart for any of offerings would be 'current' for any length of time. They are simply a very different animal to fixed deposit rates (HISAs, GICs, even ISAs).
I doubt there would be many followers from those participating in this site and in most cases, MMFs now are equivalent performers to Cash ETFs since OSFI clipped the wings of Cash ETFs last winter, and especially so for those paying brokerage commissions to buy and/or sell Cash ETFs. It would likely be more value to follow MMF yields for most retail investors.
3:18 pm
August 14, 2023
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Since I actively trade these financial products I have been tracking them for myself for the last two years. My list is about 10 deep and I just actually trade about four of them.
Most importantly to me is the periodic distribution amount and the ex-dividend date. Then I work those into my spreadsheet. I calculate the NAV of each ETF from the previous ex-div. date.
But I think that I'm a unicorn on this site when it comes to using these products. Instead of daily savings accounts for storing large amounts of cash earning interest I use these. From the comments made by members its clear to me that these ETFs are not well understood overall.
How useful a list of these types of investment products for the viewers and members of this site is warranted. An ongoing post, like the way Norman1 manages the ISAs in a forum discussion, listing the monthly distribution , ex-date, and a list of HISA / MMF ETFs is do-able, if there is someone willing to do so.
Trader first, Saver second
4:05 pm
April 21, 2022
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TINAisOver said
How useful a list of these types of investment products for the viewers and members of this site is warranted. An ongoing post, like the way Norman1 manages the ISAs in a forum discussion, listing the monthly distribution , ex-date, and a list of HISA / MMF ETFs is do-able, if there is someone willing to do so.
I think @StockExchange seems to be keen on these EFT's. Perhaps they might be interested and willing to take it on.
4:07 pm
October 27, 2013
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if so, the ball is back in the OP's court. Be community minded for the common good and volunteer.
FWIW, I suspect most will simply buy and hold such products simply because most brokerages have buy/sell commissions on Cash ETFs. OTOH, with few exceptions, buy/sells of ISAs and MMFs are commission free.
7:29 pm
April 11, 2020
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TINAisOver said
Since I actively trade these financial products I have been tracking them for myself for the last two years. My list is about 10 deep and I just actually trade about four of them.
Most importantly to me is the periodic distribution amount and the ex-dividend date. Then I work those into my spreadsheet. I calculate the NAV of each ETF from the previous ex-div. date.But I think that I'm a unicorn on this site when it comes to using these products. Instead of daily savings accounts for storing large amounts of cash earning interest I use these. From the comments made by members its clear to me that these ETFs are not well understood overall.
How useful a list of these types of investment products for the viewers and members of this site is warranted. An ongoing post, like the way Norman1 manages the ISAs in a forum discussion, listing the monthly distribution , ex-date, and a list of HISA / MMF ETFs is do-able, if there is someone willing to do so.
What do you mean by "trading" these products, selling before record date and buying at record date to have capital gain instead of interest? Which are the HISA you are using (ZST, MNY, PSA ...?) Thanks, Fritz
7:54 pm
October 27, 2013
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I think that is the general idea, to create cap gain rather than fully taxed interest.
However, there are costs involved such as bid/ask spread, loss of 3% of the yield due to being out of the market for at least 1 business day (record date --> ex-record date), and possibly commissions one (or both) ways. Lastly, a risk of the product trading at more (or less) than NAV by a cent or two.
I can make far more money just being in dividend paying common equities and leaving my cash reserve in an ISA or MMF.
7:30 am
August 14, 2023
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AltaRed said
...
FWIW, I suspect most will simply buy and hold such products simply because most brokerages have buy/sell commissions on Cash ETFs. OTOH, with few exceptions, buy/sells of ISAs and MMFs are commission free.
Agreed. every investor's circumstances vary and will make investment decisions accordingly.
Fritz23 said
What do you mean by "trading" these products, selling before record date and buying at record date to have capital gain instead of interest? Which are the HISA you are using (ZST, MNY, PSA ...?) Thanks, Fritz
"Trading " because I'm in and out frequently. Primarily I use these ETF's as my cash account . In my case its much more fluid than my cash account and I'm earning value over time more so than my cash account. I want my cash funds available at all times to make stock purchase opportunities but I I don't know when my next trades are coming or I could take days off trading and earn while my cash sits idle (BTW, this is by fulltime gig. Investing / trading is my only source of income). Also, for Tax purposes I do sell prior to taking the ETF dividend and it buy back afterwards. Basically there is a significantly lower tax hit once you get into the higher tax brackets.
I often use Evolve's HISA, CASH, and MMF ETF's , I use ZMMK and CMR.
AltaRed said
I think that is the general idea, to create cap gain rather than fully taxed interest.However, there are costs involved such as bid/ask spread, loss of 3% of the yield due to being out of the market for at least 1 business day (record date --> ex-record date), and possibly commissions one (or both) ways. Lastly, a risk of the product trading at more (or less) than NAV by a cent or two.
I can make far more money just being in dividend paying common equities and leaving my cash reserve in an ISA or MMF.
For me , I am way ahead in gains being in MMF/ HISA ETFs. ISAs and MMFs takes days to liquidate before funds are available. So it does not meet my criteria. I also have dividend paying stocks in my swing trade and buy and hold portfolio.
In terms of commissions , it's a mute point for me since I use NBDB, one of the comission free brokerages. Regarding the rest that comes down to the skill of trading. There is no replacement for experience.
These ETF's are affected by interest rates just like daily bank accounts and GICs. I do notice the diminshing returns in these ETFs for the last 8 months. Once they no longer work for me , I will change and adapt.
An easy solution to listing these ETFs are to query a search with this criteria at
an accessible ETF screener, create a link and post it .
Trader first, Saver second
7:46 am
October 27, 2013
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TINAisOver said
For me , I am way ahead in gains being in MMF/ HISA ETFs. ISAs and MMFs takes days to liquidate before funds are available. So it does not meet my criteria.
Regarding underlined portion, Cash ETFs have the same T+1 settlement time as MMFs and ISAs, with the primary difference being 'mutual fund' orders must be placed before 2pm or so EDT rather than being tradeable to the end of the stock exchange trading day of 4pm.
The other difference potentially with some brokerages is the funds from a 'sell' order may not be able to be used until the MMF or ISA is 'contracted' at the COB instead of instantaneously with Cash ETFs during the trading day... which translates to effectively a T+2 settlement. I am not aware of brokerages that would operate that way, but regardless, that is likely only important if one is truly a day trader buying and selling each day.
2:04 pm
August 14, 2023
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AltaRed said
Regarding underlined portion, Cash ETFs have the same T+1 settlement time as MMFs and ISAs, with the primary difference being 'mutual fund' orders must be placed before 2pm or so EDT rather than being tradeable to the end of the stock exchange trading day of 4pm.The other difference potentially with some brokerages is the funds from a 'sell' order may not be able to be used until the MMF or ISA is 'contracted' at the COB instead of instantaneously with Cash ETFs during the trading day... which translates to effectively a T+2 settlement. I am not aware of brokerages that would operate that way, but regardless, that is likely only important if one is truly a day trader buying and selling each day.
Although The ETF's , ISA, MMFs have the same settlement terms, they are not equal . ISA , MMF Funds do not transfer back into your trading account until after clearing the T+1 which means the trading day, the next full day and then its placed in your account another day after, only then available for redeployment. This does not include weekends , holidays. This could add 3 or more days for accessibility to your funds.
The ETF funds are placed in your trading account immediately after being sold and can be redeployed immediately since most other stocks , ETFs are also T+1. It's basically a wash.
Trader first, Saver second
2:27 pm
October 27, 2013
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That is not true with brokerages I use. ISA funds can certainly be used on day of settlement, even if they are not posted into (and show in) account until after midnight.
In actuality, if I buy $10k in stock on day X, I can then sell $10k of ISA that same day as long as I meet the 2pm or whatever 'cutoff' time and both the stock purchase and the ISA sale settle together the next day. Just like a Cash ETF.
I have done this twice in the last few months. There is no issue.
2:40 pm
August 4, 2010
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Is that a margin account, or cash/registered? And it may also vary a bit by institution on the details. I'm pretty sure with Wealthsimple (which is non-margin), I would have to sell first to create the "buying power", but I could then immediately use that amount for purchases. I think my TDDI registered accounts work similarly, while with my TDDI margin I can purchase first, and I'm responsible for selling something so that everything nets out to zero in the T+? wash, or they will be charging margin interest.
4:53 pm
October 27, 2013
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Cash accounts non-registered. I've done same day buy/sells but have to be careful of cut off time for ISAs/MMFs. I have read that TDDI in particular has moved cutoff time to 4pm to coincide with market close.
However, I suspect you are right for registered accounts where the sale has to happen first (cannot be short). Whether one can do both the buy and sell same day or not should be possible, but certainly an ISA sale one day and a purchase of an equity the next day should be doable. The funds do not have to show in account (since accounting is done after the fact).
5:03 pm
July 16, 2024
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AltaRed said
if so, the ball is back in the OP's court. Be community minded for the common good and volunteer.
NorthernRaven said
Some time ago I was playing around with some programming tools I use for work, and as a testbed to try them out I've got some code that scrapes some things like ISA rates.
1. I'm too computer challenged to program all this. I have no "programming tools". I haven't an inkling how to "code that scrapes".
2. Can we stick to the topic? Some of you appear to be digressing to substantive questions, on utilizing these ETFs, that ought be asked in a separate thread?
5:07 pm
August 4, 2010
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With Wealthsimple, even the non-registered account won't let you buy first (and go negative).
Also, I think with TDDI, at least in some cases (maybe cash nonreg, maybe registered accounts as well), they will consider certain things like their ISA and basic MMF funds as "near cash" and let you use them as "buying power", but you have to agree to let them sell off some the near cash to settle the trade if you didn't yourself. But I don't have any "near cash" in a non-margin account left at TDDI to actual test that.
12:45 pm
December 12, 2009
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StackExchange said
Just like our HISA and GIC charts, please chart ETFs denominated in USD trading on Canadian exchanges (on a separate page)? Examples are HISU, HSUV, PSU, UCSH, UMNY.U.I'm NOT asking for USD ETFs trading on American exchanges.
I wouldn't recommend it. HISA ETFs have less utility now as compared to Investment Savings Accounts.
They also wouldn't meet the criteria as they're not held directly in one's own name. HISA ETFs are held by the fund, through the custodian. ISAs are held through your brokerage firm and, in turn, through Canadian Depository for Securities.
If your brokerage firm doesn't support HISA ETFs, I recommend switching to a brokerage firm that supports ISAs, or just using Wealthsimple Cash.
Cheers,
Doug
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