SImplii Financial - 3.0% Interest on New Deposits until February 28, 2018 | Page 8 | Simplii Financial | Discussion forum

Bill, my balance on Oct 31 was $0.67, I forgot to mention that in my previous post.

I disagree, that it all depends on my balances on each day during the promo.
The same balances are used for the regular 1% rate and the 2% promo, so 2x very simple calculation formula should be right. It is Simplii after all, should be quite simple

By the way, Simplii do not offer daily compounding on the 1% regular rate, it is only calculated on the daily closing balance and is paid into your account monthly.

Shame on President's Choice, Rev.1
So this is more convoluted than Simplii’s fine print, with the 3% being 1% daily interest plus 2% on the average daily balance over the full period, but at least you get something more than in my original scenario.
Notice that the blog indicate 3% without the asterisk- the large print giveth and the small print taketh away.
There is a big problem with the fine print.
If you think you are getting a daily interest of 3%, you're wrong!!!
You're going to love this- this is the new banking.... the interest is the average daily balance over the full period, so it isn't calculated daily it's over the full period.... so if you started with a balance of $10,000. and added $10,000. in the first month, but at the beginning of the third month you needed the $20,000 for a medical emergency, then at the end of 4 months your average daily balance would be zero ($10,000.+$10,000.-$10,000.-$10,000.) so you'd get no promotional interest for keeping $10,000. in the account for 2 months i.e. you’d get your 1% for 2 months
Scenario 2: You put the money in at the end of the third month- you get an equivalent of (1+2/4% (i.e.2%x(1 month)/(4 months))=1.5%, so every day that you wait to put your money into the account is a day that the proposed 3 % interest is decreased. The only way to get 3% is to have the extra money in the account for the full 4 months- any days less means you do not get the 3%.
So virtually nobody gets 3% unless it’s by accident, because, I believe no one receives the offer prior to Nov. 1 and then to transfer money usually takes 3 or 4 days, so those days will then have to be added into the calculation of the actual equivalent interest of 1+2(116/120)=2.93%
The original add is that you "Get 3.0%* interest on new deposits into any savings account, between November 1, 2017 and February 28, 2018. (If you don’t have one of these accounts, now might be the perfect time to get one.)"  
so to find out about the actual %,
• you first have to notice the asterisk and
• then figure out how to get the details- it's not on the same page- and
• then you have to understand their interpretation of "average daily closing balance during the Offer Period that exceeds the closing balance"
Would you consider this a scam, given the deceptive/hidden nature? small print taketh away.

hank, you've made a few errors: one example - in your first example you say your average balance over the promo period is zero when in fact it's $10K (though you are correct there is no bonus interest because your promo period average is the same as Oct 31 balance.) Whatever.

I'll only address one other comment (as I think I've previously said pretty much what I can about this calculation): You say "The only way to get 3% is to have the extra money in the account for the full 4 months". Incorrect.

Example: Say your Oct 31 balance is $10K. Say on Jan 1 you put in another $10K, for the last two months of the promo period. Your average daily balance for the promo period is now $15K. You would get 2% promo interest, FOR THE WHOLE 4 MONTHS EVEN THOUGH YOU ONLY HAD IT THERE FOR 2 MONTHS, on the $5K amount that exceeds Oct 31 balance.

So, in defence of Simplii, no scam.

Greetings.
I am confused by the 'average over the whole period', and fine print ... ? ...

if someone would like to work on my math problem I would appreciate guidance.

Oct 31 had balance of $1300. , in Simpli chq
$0 Nov 1- 29,
Nov 30 had balance of $1300. ,
$0 Dec 1- 15...

Dec 15 I have avail $51,000 (Oaken).
From Dec 15
Is it better to park $51G until Feb 28 in Tang @ 2.75% or
in Simplii hisa @ something less than 1 + 2% (hopefully get more than 2.8%)?

I think the only way for sure to know how they are calculating is to wait until March and see what you get. 150 posts and there is still disagreement on how interest is paid. All I can say is there is no real reason to apply interest in such a manner except to try to pull the wool over your eyes. Good luck to all that have their savings with them. Hope you aren't disappointed.

hank said
…
I just went to their site and they have an asterisk next to the 3% but they don't seem to indicate what it means- how do you even get that much information??

At the bottom of their page Savings accounts - 3.0% interest on new deposits, there is clickable spot "Legal" on the left. Clicking on it will unroll the following additional details for the asterisk:

^* The Simplii Financial^TM promotional interest offer (the “Offer”) is available to new and existing Eligible Savings Accounts and Eligible Registered Savings Accounts (as defined below) between November 1, 2017 – February 28, 2018 (the “Offer Period”). The special annual interest rate of 3.0% is a combination of the regular annual interest rate set by Simplii Financial payable on an Eligible Savings Account and Eligible Registered Savings Accounts balance (“Regular Interest”), plus promotional interest (“Promotional Interest”) that is calculated for the Offer Period on the Additional Balance as defined below.
…

Norman1 said

hank said
…
I just went to their site and they have an asterisk next to the 3% but they don't seem to indicate what it means- how do you even get that much information??

At the bottom of their page Savings accounts - 3.0% interest on new deposits, there is clickable spot "Legal" on the left. Clicking on it will unroll the following additional details for the asterisk:

^* The Simplii Financial^TM promotional interest offer (the “Offer”) is available to new and existing Eligible Savings Accounts and Eligible Registered Savings Accounts (as defined below) between November 1, 2017 – February 28, 2018 (the “Offer Period”). The special annual interest rate of 3.0% is a combination of the regular annual interest rate set by Simplii Financial payable on an Eligible Savings Account and Eligible Registered Savings Accounts balance (“Regular Interest”), plus promotional interest (“Promotional Interest”) that is calculated for the Offer Period on the Additional Balance as defined below.
…

  

Thanks Norman1, but when I go to the site it's not on the left, but there is legal on the bottom which I click on and then there are dozens of entry points to find what you provided and I can't access it- they certainly don't make this simple... could you point out what I'm missing??

Thanks,

hank

Bill said
hank, you've made a few errors: one example - in your first example you say your average balance over the promo period is zero when in fact it's $10K (though you are correct there is no bonus interest because your promo period average is the same as Oct 31 balance.) Whatever.

I'll only address one other comment (as I think I've previously said pretty much what I can about this calculation): You say "The only way to get 3% is to have the extra money in the account for the full 4 months". Incorrect.

Example: Say your Oct 31 balance is $10K. Say on Jan 1 you put in another $10K, for the last two months of the promo period. Your average daily balance for the promo period is now $15K. You would get 2% promo interest, FOR THE WHOLE 4 MONTHS EVEN THOUGH YOU ONLY HAD IT THERE FOR 2 MONTHS, on the $5K amount that exceeds Oct 31 balance.

So, in defence of Simplii, no scam.  

Hey Bill:

Yes, scenario 2 is wrong, I apologize for my confusion- Norman1 has convinced me of this, BUT I'm unsure why in scenario1 you would say that getting 1% for 2 months was acceptable, when you are expecting 3%- what % of the population would interpret "average daily closing balance during the Offer Period that exceeds the closing balance" correctly?
Just finding out t&c isn't simple:
• you first have to notice the asterisk and
• then figure out how to get the details- it's not on the same page- and
• then you have to understand their interpretation of "average daily closing balance during the Offer Period that exceeds the closing balance"

Bill said
hank, in your first scenario you are assuming you are getting bonus interest in the first 2 months. That's because you think bonus interest is calculated the way interest normally is, i.e. day by day. That assumption is wrong. There is no bonus (2%) interest calculation done, zero, at all, until the end of Feb/18. Everybody's getting 1% until then. That's because that's the way Simplii decided to do it.

Here's the key sentence: "The Promotional Interest is calculated on the portion of the Eligible Savings Account’s AVERAGE DAILY CLOSING BALANCE DURING THE OFFER PERIOD that exceeds the closing balance as at October 31, 2017". Read the capitalized portion as often as you need to get it. There's no point jumping into calculations and scenarios if we don't yet understand the wording of the offer.

It says, with regard to the 2% calculation, that they will calculate an average daily closing balance for the period Nov 1/17 - Feb 28/18, i.e. their machine will take the 120 daily closing balances during the period, add them up, divide by 120 to come up with an average daily closing balance. Next step, they will take that number, subtract the Oct 31 balance and, ONLY IF the result is positive, give you 2% annual rate bonus interest on that amount for the full 120 days, no matter when the amounts were deposited. It will be paid into your account sometime in Mar/18.

Again, you need to discard your understanding of how banks normally calculate interest in our savings accounts, Simplii has chosen to do it a different way for the 2% cal'n.  

You made the Simplii's interest calculation very clear. Is there much difference between Simplii's interest calculation and normal daily interest calculation for a $100,000 deposit?

Yes, hank, I'm fine with it. It might be a generational thing. I was taught to always check out the legalese/fine print (it's a given that there always is fine print, somewhere), maybe younger folks aren't taught that anymore. I get that when something looks very attractive compared to the alternatives that just means I need to take a very close look, there's a good chance there's something going on underneath that shiny surface, and again maybe that's not being inculcated anymore in a world where it's all about sunny days, unicorns and rainbows. I'm not sure I've seen this method used by another fi. And no worries, no offence taken, we all learn.

davidgeorge, assuming your average balance in the promo period is more than your Oct 31 balance there is minimal difference (a quick rough calc I did indicates about a buck, maybe 2 - before taxes - if you have $100K there for the whole 4 months) due to loss of some compounding on interest. Maybe someone else wants to do the exact numbers...............