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Email this4:04 am
September 6, 2014
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When PC started their services several years ago, they advertised heavily for a high interest savings account. While the rates were subject to fluctuations, they were still quite a bit higher than what the big banks offered so I transferred XXXXXX in the account. The interest did continue to stream in for some time so I decided to forget about it.
Recently by accident, I noticed that the money was not earning any interest so I callled them. I was told that they decided to lower the interest rate on savings account to similar to what othr banks offered and instead started a new product in its place - the so called interest plus or whatever.
They of course did not bother informing clients. Or seek their approval in writing. Nor did they bother to grand father the deal by moving the money to new account.
The net result is that I have lost over a thousand dollars.
Sure enough, I should have been a little more careful, but then again I never had any issue like this with ING direct. I saw PC's promos fr new clients but simply had no idea that they had changed the business model completely without letting clients know.
Or perhaps this is the business model - get the client's foot in the door by showing them a few bucks and then stab them in the back when they are not looking.
I have decided to get all money out immediately
8:22 am
April 6, 2013
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I think the Interest First savings account had a paid a certain interest rate regardless of balance. The Interest Plus account used to have a lower rate, for balances of $1,000 and under, and a higher rate, on the entire balance, for balances over $1,000.
For $1,000 or less, the Interest First account used to pay more interest. For over $1,000, the Interest Plus account used to pay more interest. There was also an anniversary bonus paid on the Interest Plus account based the average annual balance.
The Interest Plus account has changed since. The anniversary bonus feature was discontinued around April 2013. There is no longer a different interest rate for balances over $1,000. The rate is now 1.3% regardless of balance.
8:40 am
June 24, 2014
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The moral of this story: nobody else looks after your money other thank you!
8:45 am
June 24, 2014
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Interesting to know, it seemed you did not transact on that account for some years. Did PCF not issue a dormant account notice to you?
11:11 am
October 21, 2013
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james1900 said
Interesting to know, it seemed you did not transact on that account for some years. Did PCF not issue a dormant account notice to you?
For a 6-figure account, suggested by the number of X's in LUKING's post, it wouldn't take too long to get to $1000 interest owing.
I try to check my statements at the end of every month, as a precaution.
And don't think it's just places like PCF that will not act in your best interests. I had an account once with TD, and only realized after some years that it was not the best one for the amount of money I had in there.
1:04 pm
September 6, 2014
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james1900 said
Interesting to know, it seemed you did not transact on that account for some years. Did PCF not issue a dormant account notice to you?
I did not touch the account for may a year or two and might have been told by a rep at some point about dormancy. But simply deposited $20 to activate it and never even thought about checking current interest rate.
1:09 pm
September 6, 2014
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james1900 said
The moral of this story: nobody else looks after your money other thank you!
The moral of the story is that banks are no different than Canadian utility and telecommunication companies. They devise these games offering lucrative teaser deals and then invent a way to extract it back out of your stomach along with your guts as well!!
In PC's case it is even more disgusting - Start a new savings account, label it high interest blah blah, Advertise heavily to reel in people and then quietly roll the interest rate to what other banks pay and start yet another sky high savings account blah blah
3:30 pm
August 5, 2014
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LUKING, I can understand your frustration and skepticism. The way I see it is banks, financial institutions know how much money is coming in and they know their overall interest rate they are paying on their deposits.
If they know these deposits that they have are not fixed which basically has a floor, bottom of their rates no being able to go down for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 years, they can lower the rates and test to see what happens.
Basically, see how far they can stretch it out. Once they see that clients take their money out, they offer promotional deals to lure people back in.
The more deposits become available for them, the more they can play this game. This is especially true when rates are falling and people are desperate for some higher rates where few places they can find them.
5:47 pm
October 21, 2013
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LUKING, if you want to pursue it, you could complain through the various levels of the banking process, right up to the ombudsman for financial services or whatever it's called.
It sounds like you want to argue that you were deceived about the rate. If you wantd to pursue it, I think your strongest argument is that you were deceived when you were told it was a high-interest account, and then they did not maintain that when they created the new type of account.
I agree that the promo rates are all about marketing and not about customer service, and therefore have to be monitored closely. It also seems to me though that somewhere in the terms and conditions of opening an account, it would have said that the rate was subject to change without notice, so I don't think you could argue successfully on those particular grounds.
But I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.
6:05 pm
October 21, 2013
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P.S. It appears that the PCF Ombudsman is underemployed, so perhaps you can give him/her something to do.
http://www.pcfinancial.ca/medi.....013_En.pdf
6:17 pm
October 21, 2013
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See "How to Resolve Complaints..." near the bottom of this page:
9:36 pm
August 5, 2014
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Loonie, I wrote to an Ombudsman for a financial institution and really they just keep a record of complaint in case there is legal action or court cases involved.
I never did get a real answer or resolution about my problem which I see every 4 years and I never hear anyone talk, discuss about it.
I don't know if anyone remembers about leap years every 4 years there are 366 days of interest that should be paid but for the last 20 years experiences that I had and others I know had no interest is paid for February-29.
I believe the last leap year was in 2012. I believe a leap year is divisible by 4. GIC's, cashable GIC's, redeemable GIC's, savings accounts, term deposits, bonds, zero coupon bonds, Ontario savings bonds etc. never paid me any leap year interest that I can recall.
9:49 pm
October 21, 2013
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Leap years are by definition anomalous and hard to account for. However, I would have thought that with GICs, CSBs and so on, that interest was promised on an annual basis, not a daily basis, and so in that sense it would not matter how many days there were in the year. I remember my father once complained to a bank about not getting one day's interest on various investments, and he finally succeeded, but unfortunately the details are long forgotten. I think it had something to do with maturity dates. At the time, I thought he was extraordinarily picky, but I don't think that any more, as I've become my father's child!
I appreciate that the Ombudsman for Financial Services does not have any ultimate power. He or she can only advise the bank as to what would be the right thing to do, and, in the end, they can take it or leave it.
However, some people do succeed with their complaints, and many do not have to go to the highest level. I had a complaint with BMO regarding one of their credit cards failing to give me points for almost a year. It went as far as the Vice-President's office. The fellow there could not understand what had gone wrong, but he investigated it thoroughly and in a timely fashion and ultimately he was able to fix the systemic problem which had created the issue, and gave me back my points and also the compensation that I asked for. Really, the response was exemplary.
Evidently in 2013, two people complained to the PCF's internal ombudsman, and one was successful. The other one may have gone on to another level and may or may not have ultimately succeeded.
Wouldn't it be interesting to base our investment decisions in part on which banks had had the greatest percentage of unresolved complaints to the federal ombudsman?
I'm guessing those stats are available somewhere...
I think LUKING may have a valid point if indeed he/she was not offered a choice when the new accounts were introduced. And I think it's worth lodging an official complaint, especially if it involves that much money. That's what I would do. Nothing further to lose except a little bit of time and aggravation. I hope we are kept informed if the complaint goes forward.
10:01 pm
August 5, 2014
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Loonie, I would not be surprised if Canadians are losing at least 1 billion dollars on each leap year just from GIC's, savings accounts, term deposits.
As for bonds, savings bonds, zero coupon bonds etc. it could another 1 to 2 billion dollars being lost every leap year, next one is in 2016.
I know they charge their leap year interest on credit cards, mortgages, lines of credit, auto loans, personal loans, RRSP loans etc.
11:23 pm
October 21, 2013
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Jack Manning said
Loonie, I would not be surprised if Canadians are losing at least 1 billion dollars on each leap year just from GIC's, savings accounts, term deposits.
As for bonds, savings bonds, zero coupon bonds etc. it could another 1 to 2 billion dollars being lost every leap year, next one is in 2016.
I know they charge their leap year interest on credit cards, mortgages, lines of credit, auto loans, personal loans, RRSP loans etc.
The only way that I can see to overcome this is to publicize it and put pressure on them that way to do the right thing. Perhaps start with a credit union, as they are supposed to be more responsive to the shareholder members. They would have to be willing to change their terms, as I see it. If they offer 3% annually, then it's divided by however many days there are in the year, whether it's 365 or 366. If you want them to pay for the extra day, then you would have to convince them to raise the rate microscopically to account for that. Currently they only find this worth their while when they are on the receiving end apparently - something I did not know as I never run a balance on credit cards and haven't looked into it.
However, I'm not sure it would be worth it. They all want to achieve a certain profit. If you force them to give you a bit more on one end, they will squeeze you somewhere else. They would tell us it would cost millions to convert their computer systems, and that therefore we had to pay more fees or whatever.
I think LUKINg's situation is a little different. It sounds like he/she was promised a high interest account t and then ended up with the lowest rate.
11:59 pm
August 5, 2014
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Loonie, you just made my point. Ombudsman, complaint processes, complaint's departments, feedback and customer surveys, whatever they want to call them, it is just a way for them to make it seem for us, clients, consumers have a say or some power.
At the end of the day, the only thing that works really is don't be loyal or give them too many chances. If they make a small mistake or cost little money once I can understand but they only get one chance.
We remember, when we opened an account from a credit union that bought out the prior credit union telling us we were clients before and closed the account.
We said, we were clients of the previous credit that you bought out and we were never clients of yours before. We had to state on the application that we were clients anyway to be their client.
When their rates were not competitive anymore and it was not worthwhile we closed the joint account. They asked us why we are closing the joint account? We said remember, we used to be clients.
Our point is never tell them the truth why you are doing anything because when they make decisions about their financial institution's policies they have every excuse in the book. These days it is every excuse in their computer.
7:13 am
February 22, 2013
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1> A number of years ago I "complained to ING that my interest rate calculation seemed "just a little off". I was told (and subsequently confirmed for myself) this was because that years multiplier was 366 as it was a leap year.
2> Watch your statements regularly as "bad things can happen".
3> One will not be notified nor does one likely have recourse. I suspect the terms and conditions put the onus on the account holder to "keep up with current changes"
GS
8:55 am
April 6, 2013
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Loonie said
Leap years are by definition anomalous and hard to account for. However, I would have thought that with GICs, CSBs and so on, that interest was promised on an annual basis, not a daily basis, and so in that sense it would not matter how many days there were in the year. I remember my father once complained to a bank about not getting one day's interest on various investments, and he finally succeeded, but unfortunately the details are long forgotten. I think it had something to do with maturity dates. At the time, I thought he was extraordinarily picky, but I don't think that any more, as I've become my father's child!
....
Leap years are not new and are usually accounted for in the fine print. Maybe not always in the way one expects.
This is from GE Capital Canada's May 29, 2013 prospectus supplement for their medium-term Series A, 2.42% Fixed Rate Notes due May 31, 2018:
Interest Rate Per Annum: 2.42%
Interest Payment Period: _ Annual X Semi-Annual _ Quarterly _ Monthly
Interest Payment Dates: Each May 31 and November 30 in equal instalments commencing on November 30, 2013. If an Interest Payment Date is not a business day in Toronto or New York then interest will be payable on the next business day with no adjustment (Following Business Day Convention).
Day Count Convention: Actual/Actual (Canadian Compound Method), which means when calculating interest for a full semiannual fixed rate interest period, the day count convention is 30/360 and when calculating for a period that is shorter than a full semi-annual fixed rate interest period, the day count convention is Actual/365 (Fixed).
11:11 am
September 6, 2014
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Jack Manning And Loonie
There are 2 things here:
1. PC advertised the saving account as a high interest account and justified it by stating that they are passing on the savings to customers as they don't have branches etc. The bank account itself was advertised as high interest. I don't have a problem with fluctuations with rates, problem is that they deliberately and deceivingly turned high interest account to a low interest normal rate account and then started new product with different name. With same type of deceiving advertisements again.
2. ING has exactly similar bank account, high interest blah blah. I have been with them for over a decade now, never had to look at interest rate (because when I looked at during first few years, it was always the higher than any other bank)
But then again, they were not owned by Canadians till now!
What a shameless society we are building for ourselves.
And yes, I am escalating this issue, have also killed my spouse's account as well which also had xxxxx sitting in it. If anyone knows what other financial regulators we can complain to, please let me know. Thanks in advance.
2:39 pm
August 5, 2014
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Norman1, I don't care if it in the fine print or it is in a magic black book. They are not paying people interest for that extra day and are charging interest for it. If you want to be played for a fool that is up to you but I know when someone is not paying me.
LUKING, file complaints all you want and tell me how that works out for you. We had many issues with many different financial institutions and not one of them was fully resolved. They may give some small amount to show that they care for us as customers but it was not worth all our effort, time, cost to us.
Whichever financial institution gives us the best rates on whatever products we request, they will get our business. The major Canadian banks from our experiences always gave us more problems than other financial institutions anyway.
Please write your comments in the forum.