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Email this2:58 pm
October 21, 2013
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Rick, I think your people at HSBC didn't know what they were doing. (wouldn't be the first time!) Probably nobody had ever asked them to do this before, as most people don't think that far ahead.
I've done this at Hubert several years, have taken up to 50% off for CRA in order to avoid getting into quarterly payments later.
The best time to do this is towards the end of the year.
Regarding any withdrawal fees: I've never paid any, only closing fees. However, I think it's worth asking if you can pay those in cash, outside of the registered plan, so as to avoid being bumped into higher mandatory withholding tax. My experience with the closing fee was that they took it out of the remaining funds in the plan, and I think they should be able to do the same with withdrawals, i.e. take it out of your requested withdrawal rather than adding it on.
Always be aware that some of the rules are different for RSPs as opposed to RIFs. For example, only RIF withdrawals count for the pension tax credit, not RSPs. There are also different rules around the withholding tax. With RIFs, the minimum mandatory withdrawal is not subject to any withholding tax, which can make you more vulnerable to quarterly payments. Again, in this latter situation, you might want to ask for a voluntary withholding tax.
5:43 pm
April 26, 2019
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I hope this is ok. Same subject but about Oaken.
I have RRSP to move to RRIF any time. I have RRSP with Oaken and Hubert.
No real issues with Hubert but for many reasons I still don’t like the new website.
A request to move RRSP to RRIF was done over chat. I kept a PDF copy of chat. They move the RRSP to RRIF on the same day it was purchased. So out of mmmddyyyy the dd is the move date.
They take mandatory from RRIF Cash first then RRIF GIC with lowest interest rate. I can request a mandatory withdrawal date to be changed from year to year. Because I’m laddered I can set date after a GIC matures and it will sit in RRSP HISA for the mandatory withdrawal and any others on top of that and if any left will put into another GIC. I like the control that they offer to allow you to withdraw on your own.
I have asked Oaken the same. I know they don’t have RRIF HISA. But let’s say a matured GIC that waits for direction to reinvest or transfer out is same as in HISA but is actually in limbo. I have had a response and they say all I can take is the mandatory amount. I have asked if it can be taken from out of limbo if I make the withdrawal the same as the maturity date. And more than the mandatory amount as well. That concept seems to have gone over their head and no response. Nor a response of where funds come from or what flexibilities that I would have. Feeling very uncomfortable!! I like that they are CDIC and have a Vancouver office. Today no responses. So far from my side...take mandatory payment and transfer each GIC elsewhere so I can have my flexibility of withdrawing as much as possible while staying in my tax bracket.
And also I have to do a huge RRIF application to move them which is also the successor/beneficiary form. I did not have to do that with Hubert as I already have a RRIF Account. But with them it would be the request to move by chat and mail in the successor/beneficiary form....much easier.
Questions
1. Am I emailing the wrong person?
2. If you are doing RRIF withdrawals from Oaken how does it work?
2A. Where does the money come from.
3. If you are doing RRIF withdrawals from Oaken do you take extra and if yes what do you ask?
4. If you are doing RRIF withdrawals from Oaken are you happy with there RRIF process?
5. If you are doing RRIF withdrawals from Oaken and are not happy have you found a good alternative? If yes, where.
6. Should I email Benjy Katchen?
Thanks.
As I get older we are minimizing our accounts and I like the idea of both Peoples and Oaken are CDIC and have Vancouver offices.
6:00 pm
April 15, 2020
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Quarterly installments. This can be setup on CRA My Account. Very user friendly. Start date September 15, 2020. Quarterly. How many payments? 4. Amount $1,000.00. The amount depends on individual. Add banking information. I think it takes 2-3 years after you withdraw RRIF at 72 but I am not 100% sure of timing.
10:11 pm
October 21, 2013
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@GICInvestor:
I have had RIFs at Oaken for the last few years.
Initially, I asked similar questions to what you are asking, I think. They do have a separate team who deal with questions about RIFs (and probably RSPs too). I was referred to one of them. My question was whether I could take out any extra from the RIF if needed.
Since, as you note, they only offer GICs, no savings account, the answer was basically "no". They only offer GICs and a GIC can't be broken except for what CRA requires by law. He said that if there was an extreme situation, they might consider bending for me, but it would be very much at their discretion and depending on need - and likely a penalty, I think.
Oaken has a specific formul as to how they fund the mandatory withdrawal. They will tell you this readily if you ask. It goes something like this. First, they take the interest earned thus far, then they take from principal if needed. If there is more than one GIC, they still take interest first, then principal from the lowest paying GIC. The formula is inflexible.
I found this difficult to work with, and it was difficult to figure out what the GICs would be worth at a given point in time as I had two of them. Now there is just one left and I am happier but they have less of my money. It is because of this experience that i advocate setting the withdrawal date for the anniversary date of the GIC; at least then you will know how much it was worth at the time of withdrawal, and hopefully you can go from there.
You might want to look at Accelerate. I believe they allow an additional withdrawal from RIF GIC up to 20% annually. They are the only one I have found that does this. I am just too lazy to join yet another FI.
RIFs are fine for people who have the right amount in their RIFs to see them through (and no more) and the right amount from other income sources to satisfy them without getting into OAS clawback, whose needs will be met by the mandatory withdrawal. I'm not sure how many people fit into this category but suspect it is a minority. For everyone else, they are a pain, particularly if, as an aging person, you have to muddle your way through how to arrange extra withdrawals. We want things to be easier, not harder, at this stage and later. Just my opinion.
The only thing I think you could potentially get from Benjy (and it would be a huge win) would be if you convinced him to allow registered savings accounts. I don't think they will budge on GIC withdrawals.
However, if your investments in the RIF are laddered, you can take the extra that you need out of the one that is maturing before reinvesting it. I don't think they can stop you from doing that, but I haven't tried.
I keep an RIF savings account at Hubert for this purpose and dump money in it regularly from maturing GICs so that there is always enough available for additional withdrawals as needed. It's inefficient as I am not getting top dollar, but may be a bit be easier now that Hubert is allowing one-year RIF GICs. You can have as many small RIF GICs as you want, for maximum flexibility with withdrawals.
I hope that helps a bit.
7:35 am
April 26, 2019
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@loonie
Thanks for your very informative reply.
I have done everything in regards to RRIF withdrawals by email just to keep it all in black and white and as a permanent record. My emails have been nice but when I need to be frank I am, as I suggested some alternatives are to transfer out the funds. Perhaps that hurts their feelings for me to have a better idea than what crap they are putting out. Right now I am totally disappointed with the lack of helpful communication from Oaken.
So far they have not told me where the funds come from OR if there is a way to take out more than the minimum. And I remain that those funds should be accessible to me over and above the mandatory amount.
So what I have learned over the years of being here and using the higher interest FI's that Oaken with no savings account for TFSA RRIF and RRSP should be avoided and only use them for Non Registered GICs and the HISA account that they offer.
Over the years here is how my investment strategy has developed.
BMO and Vancity is our day to day FI, I dumped Outlook, Accelerate will soon only have my cash and TFSA only (and may phase out TFSA and will phase out Non Registered), Hubert will have only Non Registered, TFSA and RRIF (and may phase out TFSA), Peoples will have Non Registered and TFSA only, Implicity I will dump once all GICS mature (and I like them), Oaken will have Non Registered and maybe a small amount of RRIF (and will phase out TFSA).
What Oaken has that is good, is there online GIC applications and the Non Registered side of the business. Lesson learned....no associated savings accounts....no investing in that product!!!
I would not ever ask to break a GIC but have reasonable expectations for a matured GIC yet to be re-invested.
And yes, it appears flexibility in RRIF is a very weak point with Oaken.
Based on what you are saying. I think at the end of all of our maturities I will leave $40,000 there in a 5 year ladder (and each year decide to keep the balance there or transfer it out) and move the rest out to either Hubert or Accelerate as we have accounts there too.
Accelerate is in a amalgamation proposal and they plan to be more automated and possibly the country club style they have will come to an end and who knows if they will still allow 20% more from a GIC. But I would never ask for that. I like to keep my GICs intact for tracking vs trusting some gigantic formula that only the FI knows what it is. I prefer all RRIF payments to come from my cash account (matured GIC). And yes I will set my withdrawal date at Oaken to be the same as a maturity date but they won't respond to saying they would take the payment from that matured GIC!!!! NOT HAPPY, LOSING TRUST!!!
Accelerate is quite easy to sign up to.
I have been pulling out RRSP/RRIF for the last 7 years or so..so no fear of clawback.
And as we both mention Hubert is fantastic to withdraw RRIF from your RRIF savings account.
I was joking about Benjy. I spoke to him years ago at a Zoomer show in Vancouver and he told me they were planning on implementing savings accounts for registered products and asked me to email him as to how it would be helpful to me. He even gave me his business card. I sent the email, no doubt he forgot the conversation, instead of digging in, he gave me a smart ass reply that I guess we can't to business with you. So I would have no faith in contacting him.
While Hubert may not always have the best rate for RRIF most of my withdrawals go to TFSA and that, I shop for but may just penalize myself a bit by falling into the trend that has developed over the years. And thanks to you and your round about way of saying things some times, now I wished I took more out of RRIF that what I needed to cover TFSA. I should have withdrawn the max within my tax bracket and just slotted those funds as x RRIF in my excel spreadsheet.
Thanks again and yes your information has helped a lot.
10:05 am
April 15, 2020
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Outlook Financial RRIF Minimum withdrawal calculation.
I looked at a friends RRIF statements at Outlook. To determine the minimum withdrawal for the next year, check the balance on ALL RRIFs on December 31st. HISA, total of ALL GICS, plus accrued interest on GICS. Multiply this value by the percent to withdraw based on the individuals age the following day (i.e. January 1st). This is the amount withdrawn December 31st the following December. The amount is withdrawn from the account paying the lowest interest rate. HISA first. The lowest rate on GICs. There was only one GIC left in my friends account. The calculation was simple. If there are two GICS with the same rate I assume they would cash from the GIC that has the nearest maturity date. I can not verify the last statement. I have no GICS in my RRSP. My RRSP will be converted to RRIF on December 31, 2020. Have a good summer.
10:24 am
February 17, 2013
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pooreva said
Hmmm. Define 'enough cash'. 500K? 1 mill? 10 mill?
The answer to that varies per situation.
pooreva said
What is the max 'income' before you start paying taxes for a couple?
From Advisors Edge website:
The OAS recovery tax can apply if you’re 65 and older and receive taxable annual income in excess of $72,809 for 2017-2017 (and $73,756 in 2017-2018).
The Guaranteed Income Supplement (GIS) is administered alongside the OAS program, and is subject to recovery, but at a 50% rate. Full clawback of GIS (which is directed at alleviating poverty) occurs at a fairly low income level. For example, a single senior will receive no GIS if taxable income (not including OAS) is more than $17,0376 in 2016.
10:31 am
February 17, 2013
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Loonie said
Rick, I think your people at HSBC didn't know what they were doing. (wouldn't be the first time!) Probably nobody had ever asked them to do this before, as most people don't think that far ahead.I've done this at Hubert several years, have taken up to 50% off for CRA in order to avoid getting into quarterly payments later.
The best time to do this is towards the end of the year.Regarding any withdrawal fees: I've never paid any, only closing fees. However, I think it's worth asking if you can pay those in cash, outside of the registered plan, so as to avoid being bumped into higher mandatory withholding tax. My experience with the closing fee was that they took it out of the remaining funds in the plan, and I think they should be able to do the same with withdrawals, i.e. take it out of your requested withdrawal rather than adding it on.
Always be aware that some of the rules are different for RSPs as opposed to RIFs. For example, only RIF withdrawals count for the pension tax credit, not RSPs. There are also different rules around the withholding tax. With RIFs, the minimum mandatory withdrawal is not subject to any withholding tax, which can make you more vulnerable to quarterly payments. Again, in this latter situation, you might want to ask for a voluntary withholding tax.
Thanx Loonie!
Gave up on HSBC years ago.
Always try to pay fees for registered funds out of non-registered. Motive didn't have a problem with this.
Was not aware there was no withholding tax on minimum RIF withdrawals. Always planned using 25% held back for tax. Most of our RSPs are in Hubert. Hope they don't mind taking tax off.
11:13 am
April 26, 2019
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cruzinalong said
Outlook Financial RRIF Minimum withdrawal calculation.I looked at a friends RRIF statements at Outlook. To determine the minimum withdrawal for the next year, check the balance on ALL RRIFs on December 31st. HISA, total of ALL GICS, plus accrued interest on GICS. Multiply this value by the percent to withdraw based on the individuals age the following day (i.e. January 1st). This is the amount withdrawn December 31st the following December. The amount is withdrawn from the account paying the lowest interest rate. HISA first. The lowest rate on GICs. There was only one GIC left in my friends account. The calculation was simple. If there are two GICS with the same rate I assume they would cash from the GIC that has the nearest maturity date. I can not verify the last statement. I have no GICS in my RRSP. My RRSP will be converted to RRIF on December 31, 2020. Have a good summer.
Make sure you know the process to move RRSP to RRIF it differs from FI to FI and some can take up to a month to finish the process. I have also heard hear, that without YOUR notification some FIs may convert to RRIF without your notification and some may just cash out your RRSP and you pay the taxes all in that year. You're screwed on the latter option. And actually it makes no difference if you do it right now or later....like December 31. I'd rather know now that it is place...I might win a one year cruise!!!! You know....one of those cruises that won't let you off the ship. You are not forced into a mandatory payment until age 71. Ie you are 71 today and you must convert to RRIF by December 31. So in 2021 you MUST take your first mandatory payment. You don't have to take a payment at age 70.
12:23 pm
April 15, 2020
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I checked. My FI automatically converts RRSP to RRIF at the end of year.
1:42 pm
April 26, 2019
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@loonie
Loonie I got some answers. I had to pry for them though!!! I am thinking a little less of Oaken for sure. I will post soon. Busy for rest of day and all day tomorrow.
And still some unanswered too. And I see a loop hole!!!
10:31 pm
October 21, 2013
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cruzinalong said
I checked. My FI automatically converts RRSP to RRIF at the end of year.
That sounds like Tangerine, although others may also do it this way. However, it's up to you if you want to do it earlier. It's not their call. I think they are doing it at year's end to protect those who forgot - and to retain the investment.
I had to argue with Tangerine to get them to do the transfer when I wanted it done. That one is closed now. They acted like nobody had ever made this request before, had to go away and hum and haw before they did what I wanted.
I have, in general, found that FI employees are less well educated on RIFs than on RSPs and TFSAs. I'm sure the majority of their business is in the latter two. And, further, RIFs are a diminishing investment, and thus of less interest to them. Welcome to the marginalization of being over 70!
Rick, you should be OK with Hubert, although I've never tried to do withholding on a minimum mandatory withdrawal.
Looking forward to your revelations, GICI!
4:09 am
April 15, 2020
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cruzinalong said
Outlook Financial RRIF Minimum withdrawal calculation.I looked at a friends RRIF statements at Outlook. To determine the minimum withdrawal for the next year, check the balance on ALL RRIFs on December 31st. HISA, total of ALL GICS, plus accrued interest on GICS. Multiply this value by the percent to withdraw based on the individuals age the following day (i.e. January 1st). This is the amount withdrawn December 31st the following December. The amount is withdrawn from the account paying the lowest interest rate. HISA first. The lowest rate on GICs. There was only one GIC left in my friends account. The calculation was simple. If there are two GICS with the same rate I assume they would cash from the GIC that has the nearest maturity date. I can not verify the last statement. I have no GICS in my RRSP. My RRSP will be converted to RRIF on December 31, 2020. Have a good summer.
Conclusion to above. The withdrawal has accrued interest. The accrued interest is paid on the anniversary date the following year. Wait until your statement arrives.
6:34 am
April 26, 2019
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cruzinalong said
I checked. My FI automatically converts RRSP to RRIF at the end of year.
Make sure you have a new beneficiary and/or successor set up before or right after and also ask for a confirmation that they have received it.
11:06 am
April 26, 2019
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Okay. My update. I was dealing with a Sales & Service Specialist. I had 14 to/from emails that took place and only in the last two, I received the information that was beginning to be helpful. I am going to have to assume that this Sales & Service Specialist was not conversant in RRIF’s as they (RRIF’s) seem to be boogey men that no one wants to talk about or even have any knowledge about. I too will assume that the Sales & Service Specialist I was dealing with was actually a trainee, and as part of the process they would find answers from others at Oaken, with the knowledge, to pass on. As the dialogue often referred to “what they told me”. That is, if this individual (the Sales & Service Specialist) liked their job and was motivated. I was discouraged by the lack of quality responses and I asked to hand the conversation over to a GIC RRIF Specialist and the response to that was, I would have to call the 800# to talk to a Customer Service Specialists for that, yet in the past I have had emails from a GIC Servicing Specialist. And thus my opinion of Oaken in regards to RRIFs has lessened. Or maybe my opinion for quality of Sales and Service has lessened. Even though I received some answers I still believe that I was not provided with quality information that I am sure is there. I have made some comments to their responses with an *.
Here is what I extracted!!!
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The RRIF Payments come from:
Regarding RRIF payments, you cannot select how the funding is allocated to the underlying RRIF GIC’s for the scheduled RRIF payments. Below is the order in which the system will allocate the payments automatically:
1) Interest - it will take whatever interest that has accrued on ALL investments held in the plan and if that does not satisfy the minimum, then;
2) Principal - it will take funds from the principal from the investment with lowest interest rate. If the interest rate is the same between 2 or more investments then it will take the funds from the one that has the earlier issue date. If the interest rate is the same between 2 or more investments and they have the same issue date, then funds will be taken from the lowest active account number
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I then asked if I would receive a statement at year end advising me of my RRIF value principal and interest as of December 31. Just so I would now what the mandatory amount would be.
Answer was.
We send out annual portfolio statements every year, so you would’ve received one from us in January or February for all of your accounts as of December 31st, 2019. This will include your RRIF’s. If you do not have the hard copy of your portfolio statement, you can obtain one via Oaken’s online banking under the “Statements and Documents” tab. If you do not have access to online banking, please call us at 1-855-625-3622.
*But I assume they know what it is Dec 31 as there customers would possibly want a RRIF payment Jan 1. A statement in Jan Feb is kind late isn’t it? I would like to do as much as possible as quickly as possible for good estate planning!!
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I then asked would I be able to see what GIC(s) had the interest and or principal taken from what GIC and the amount.
*(I am sure if this was being done at Hubert you would see the transaction analysis for each GIC)
Answer was.
We don’t issue statements that show the GIC payment, but once the payment is made, you are welcome to call our contact centre and a customer service specialist can go over your accounts with you and advise how much funds came from each account.
*My thought about that is, pure B.S.!!!
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I asked about changing the RRIF payment date year to year.
The answer was.
If you are choosing annual payments, and want to change the date each year, you can do that however we cannot input that ahead of time. You will need to provide us with a signed letter of direction each year with the new payment date you’d like.
*What do the mean we cannot input that ahead of time?
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Other comments from Oaken
If you needed a withdrawal from your RRIF, the funds would have to come from an active RRIF GIC account.
*So I guess a matured GIC in limbo due to no RRIF savings account available…..it is not an “active” GIC? This person stayed as far away as possible in discussing what can be done with a matured RRIF GIC.
Regarding the payment, you have the option to have the minimum amount which is based on your age, or you can specify a specific amount (gross or net) which will be paid to you.
If you ever need additional funds from your RRIF, you are allowed one withdrawal per year which cannot exceed more than 50% of the total value of your RRIF’s with Oaken. You can specify which GIC account(s) you’d like the funds to come from. This withdrawal is only allowed once per year and is completely separate from your annual RRIF payment.
*WOW an exception!!! But not flexible enough as I would have had laddered some smaller amounts if I had know that before hand. And it I had a crystal ball to know what I needed 5 years in advance. And can you pull from an active GIC? And this separate withdrawal is obviously with a tax withhold…..all of it. A good reason for having some $1000 RRIF GICs for every year to mature. 2 x $1000 GICs laddered for 5 years (Total of $2000 per year) ?
When your RRIF GIC matures and you transfer the account to another FI, if your payment has not been paid out yet, then we will pay out the payment to you at the time of the transfer as it is our responsibility for that calendar year. The other FI will then start paying your annual payments the following calendar year.
*And now the loop hole????? I read this, as per directly above, with no other parameters in place by Oaken that I could, for example set up a RRIF payment date of July 15 and all my GICs mature in April. Any GIC in April I could transfer ie. $6000 minus $5000 mandatory RRIF payment, no tax with hold , to my Oaken Savings Account and the $1000 left over to another FI that allows more of a cooperative environment to manage your RRIF at an FI like Hubert or Accelerate. I know Accelerate has the extra 20% option but I need to verify with them of their policies of withdrawal of RRIF in HISA. So in hindsight I should have laddered 1 x $6000 GICs laddered for 5 years and left the larger amount in a 5 year GIC and repeat till all gone from Oaken. I will be looking for a strategy for dealing with Oaken to get what I want and not what they offer as I don’t want to follow their convoluted methods for which they don’t even offer a transaction analysis for withdrawn funds.
*So based on $100,000 in RRIF and just say a $5000 mandatory payment based on the above, a strategy to avoid Oakens’ convoluted withdrawal method could be by having 8 x $1000 GICs laddered for 5 years (Total of $8000 per year) and use the options as they said as per above???
*Bottom line I don’t feel comfortable with convoluted. Especially when they can’t substantiate it.
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4:46 pm
October 21, 2013
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Very interesting, particularly re: allowing an annual 50% withdrawal. I asked the same question a few years ago and was speaking with one of their specialists in this area. He said it would not be possible to withdraw any extra except by negotiation and under exceptional circumstances.
It makes me nervous that their policies seem to be able to change like this without notifying us. If they can change it in one direction, in our favour, what's to prevent them changing it in another direction, not in our favour, next month?
While I understand the significance of having some smaller GICs, and it would not be a concern with Oaken or Hubert, I would be careful of this with other FIs that normally charge a withdrawal or closing fee as you could get hit for a fee on each one if not careful.
Although it's true that RIFs are of the least interest to FIs and many staff are ill-informed, I am surprised it took you so much effort to get answers. I did not have this much difficulty.
I found it was no problem to phone them to get the details on withdrawals, but I don't enjoy making the calls.
I am confused about the part about withdrawals from "active" RIFs. It doesn't make logical sense to me that you could not withdraw on the date of maturity. Let's say you were transferring out; and you had set it up early enough that they had the transfer documents in hand on maturity date, wherein you specified how much to be transferred, why couldn't they cash the rest - if necessary in the minute before it matured, but also in the minute after. I know that they will and do keep funds in limbo for a few days after maturity if you tell them a transfer is pending. Maybe it's a question of setting up their technology properly?
I have often wondered where my money is when it is nowhere. A while ago, when doing my quarterly accounts, I was missing a chunk of money. It was in transit and didn't show on the balance of either FI.
Thanks for posting your results, GICI.
5:14 pm
February 17, 2013
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Like the loophole. Like their rates, but don't deal with Oaken due to their lack of TFSA, RSP & RIF savings accounts.
Is it possible to set up a 5 year GIC ladder within a RIF (other than Oaken), that pays interest out to your RIF savings account either annually or at maturity to cover your withdrawals?
7:27 pm
April 15, 2020
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Outlook.
Redeems from lowest rate investment first. If more is needed redeems from lowest rate GIC. There are fees these days to transfer RRSP/RRIF. Not sure if it is worth it.
8:51 pm
April 26, 2019
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Rick said
Like the loophole. Like their rates, but don't deal with Oaken due to their lack of TFSA, RSP & RIF savings accounts.
Is it possible to set up a 5 year GIC ladder within a RIF (other than Oaken), that pays interest out to your RIF savings account either annually or at maturity to cover your withdrawals?
Yes. Hubert. I have laddered GICs with them and they pay mandatory amount from RRIF HISA first, then GIC with lowest interest rate. I am in a well managed position with Hubert to have my withdrawals come out of HISA. BUT you have a very very good idea....to turn all my RRIF GICs turned on to pay interest annually. Thanks Rick! I will be asking once all my RRSP have moved to RRIF some time in early July.
Once I confirm the loophole with Oaken I will use my laddered GICs like this.....Oaken GIC matures.....send transfer from Oaken to Hubert beforehand ......forces my Oaken RRIF mandatory payment.....rest is moved to Hubert.......leave cash in Hubert till I have withdrawn enough for TFSA.....and a bit more to stay in my tax bracket......reinvest rest after reviewing my Hubert ladder.
Review Oaken funds to have a ladder a $1000 over my mandatory amount. Do same for wife’s Oaken RRIF Account. And repeat every year.
8:58 pm
April 26, 2019
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cruzinalong said
Outlook.
Redeems from lowest rate investment first. If more is needed redeems from lowest rate GIC. There are fees these days to transfer RRSP/RRIF. Not sure if it is worth it.
Outlook is in the past for me. Thanks for the update. I will use it for comparative purposes. Hubert and Oaken = no fees. Oaken is unrealistic and the withdrawal policy appears to be driven from their no RRIF HISA Account policy. I am not prepared to do it their way. So if all works ok I get what I want and they lose more and more every year.
Please write your comments in the forum.