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Email this11:30 pm
July 25, 2014
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Thank you all for your valuable input.
The conflicting opinions that have been received on the issue of whether there is separate CDIC coverage for PC financial and for CIBC is similar to the experience that I have had in speaking to people who should know. However I've come to the conclusion that the controversy is largely irrelevant.
The important fact is that if you have an account with PC Financial you have the covenant of CIBC backed by all of its assets, to pay you the amount on deposit on demand. In that case the CDIC guarantee is a largely irrelevant because it is highly unlikely the Canadian government would allow the CIBC to go broke without bailing them out,
I believe that this point was made by Doug and one of his posts.
Having said that I think it is still wise to have set up as many joint accounts as you can, if you intend to have more than $100,000 in each account.
11:36 am
April 6, 2013
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There's conflicting opinions likely because the answer has changed over time. That can be seen by looking at the bottom of the President's Choice Financial account statements for the issuer of the account.
The issuer information was
President's Choice Financial services are provided by Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
which meant no separate CDIC coverage from CIBC.
Then, the information was updated to
President's Choice Financial services are provided by Amicus Bank, a member of the CIBC group of companies
which meant separate CDIC coverage from CIBC.
Now, the issuer information is
President's Choice Financial services are provided by the direct banking division of CIBC
which means no separate CDIC coverage from CIBC.
Around the transition time, this explanation appeared on the statements:
Prior to October 1, 2005, President's Choice Financial services were provided by Amicus Bank, a member of the CIBC group of companies. Effective October 1, 2005, President's Choice Financial services were transferred to the direct banking division of CIBC.
It all depends on who the exact issuer of the account or deposit is. Many banks have more than one CDIC issuer to help customers who would like to deposit more than $100,000 with them.
For example, CIBC has at least these three CDIC issuers available to their clients:
- Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
- CIBC Mortgages Inc.
- CIBC Trust Corporation
If one had $45,000 in a savings account issued by Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce and a $90,000 two-year GIC issued by CIBC Mortgages Inc., the deposits would be fully covered by two separate $100,000 CDIC coverages.
11:59 am
April 6, 2013
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TD Canada Trust has at least four CDIC issuers. This is from the Deposit Account Issuers section of their current Account Related Information and Administration Fees document:
Deposit Account Issuers
Chequing/Youth Accounts* - Offered by TD Bank.
Savings Accounts (except Youth Account)* - Offered by TD Mortgage Corporation except for customers in British Columbia or Yukon, to whom it is offered by TD Pacific Mortgage Corporation. All guaranteed by TD Bank.
U.S. Dollar Accounts* - Offered by TD Bank.
*Accounts open at Canada Trust prior to conversion to TD Canada Trust are issued by The Canada Trust Company.
All four issuers (TD Mortgage Corporation, TD Pacific Mortgage Corporation, Toronto-Dominion Bank, and Canada Trust Company) appear on the current list of CDIC members.
2:52 pm
December 12, 2009
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There's no confusion. Well, the only confusion is that essentially, you have two federally chartered banks (one being CIBC and the other being President's Choice Bank, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Loblaw Companies Ltd) with the right to use the "President's Choice" name for their financial services business.
Let me clear this up, once and for all. The below assumes all assets are held in sole name only (for CDIC purposes since, for those that aren't aware, the beneficial ownership of an account dictates CDIC insurance limits):
Jack holds the following with the Sechelt Branch of CIBC, located at 5530 Wharf Road Suite 101, Sechelt BC (transit number: 01440; institution number: 010). All of his accounts with CIBC are domiciled to this branch.
Chequing Account - $5000.00, with a $2500 unsecured overdraft limit attached
High Interest Savings Account - $20,000.00
Jack also does most of his grocery shopping at the local Extra Foods store, a major Loblaw-owned grocery store brand in western Canada, and does a lot of his banking through that channel as well. Through President's Choice Financial, which is operated by the direct banking division of CIBC (i.e., contact centre) at 305 Milner Ave., Scarborough, ON (transit: 30800; institution: 010), Jack holds the following:
Chequing Account - $25,000
Personal Line of Credit (Unsecured) - Limit: $50,000 (utilized: $0)
High Interest Savings Account - $75,000
** President's Choice Financial MasterCard** - Limit: $5000 (utilized, $637 outstanding)
** Issued by President's Choice Bank, not CIBC
How much is Jack insured for through CDIC?
Answer: $100,000 of his $125,000 in total assets.
Although they operate with separate brand names, one being CIBC and the other being President's Choice Financial, with no real "linkage" between the two banks in either's branch/pavilion or on their respective website, one need to pay attention as to the issuer of the respective current (i.e., chequing), demand deposit (i.e., interest-bearing) or term deposit (i.e., a GIC) product. They are all offered by CIBC, through different branches (or "transits").
The one - and only - exception where the CDIC limits are separate are those issued by President's Choice Bank. Relatively few people have accounts with them as these are either issued through deposit brokers (essentially, agents or independent advisors that work with various institutions) or through self-directed discount brokerages in nominee-form only. Even then, in your statements issued by your deposit broker/brokerage, they are required to advise you of the CDIC member issuer of the product. I'm not even sure which advisor(s) deal with President's Choice Bank (Scotia iTRADE does not, I believe) and I'm not even sure if one of the largest deposit brokers, Desjardins Financial Security Canada (formerly MGI Financial), does. If anyone actually holds a PC Bank-issued GIC, please do let me know. And, another thing: Loblaw-owned PC Bank only issues GICs - no savings or chequing accounts. They use them primarily, alongside their company-sponsored credit card receivables trust off-balance sheet securitization vehicle, to fund their President's Choice MasterCard balances. 
Clear as mud? 
If not: basically, let's make it even simpler, if you hold a PC Financial product (other than a PC Financial MasterCard) directly and can access their online banking platform at http://www.pcfinancial.ca and logging in, PC Financial and CIBC are 100% the same bank.
Cheers,
Doug
6:23 pm
October 21, 2013
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I really think CDIC has a responsibility to make this clearer. The distinction between PC Bank and PC Financial may be lost on the "average person" who thinks they are separately covered for both PC Financial and CIBC. This is what I would have assumed too.
I also think PC should make it perfectly clear, which they do not.
(I do not have any accounts with PC Financial or Bank.)
10:53 pm
December 12, 2009
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They do make it pretty clear (about as clear as they can, I think). One thing they always tell you in banking is, presumably for legal reasons, branch employees are not to discuss CDIC insurance as it relates to an individual's personal circumstances (how much their deposits are insured for). Presumably, this is a similar rationale.
https://www.cibc.com/ca/legal-trademarks/deposit-insurance.html
That said, they actually still provide an exhaustive "Deposit Register," something that used to be required by CDIC but isn't anymore. They actually list all possible CDIC insured accounts and President's Choice Financial accounts are shown as being issued by CIBC, so included within CIBC's limits.
As well, if you had accounts insured by the former Amicus Bank subsidiary and those insured by CIBC, since the two were co-mingled upon Amicus' dissolution, I believe as per CDIC's merger rules, your deposits in excess of the maximum would remain insured but no new deposits in that beneficial ownership insured.
Hope that helps,
Doug
10:56 pm
December 12, 2009
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Interestingly, Tangerine Bank deposits are insured separately from The Bank of Nova Scotia deposits even if held in the same name (your full legal name and Social Insurance Number) but that's because, even though they are wholly-owned by BNS, they are a separate CDIC member and pay CDIC premiums separately.
I'm not sure why CIBC chose to co-mingle the PC Financial deposits with CIBC - perhaps the cost-savings, common technological platform and reduced CDIC premiums had something to do with it?
It also makes it harder for Loblaw to dump CIBC as a banking partner since they'd likely have to start from square one again with any new partner as CIBC could simply rebrand the PC Financial transit as the Direct Banking Branch of CIBC. LOL
Cheers,
Doug
12:27 am
October 21, 2013
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I see what you mean, Doug, about CIBC's "clarity". The link you have provided can also be reached from the PC Financial site.
Still, CDIC lists PC Bank as a separate entity, which I think is very confusing to the average person. When you consider how sensitive corporations are to any other company in the same business (or sometimes even in a different business) using any name that is vaguely similar to their own, and how ready they are to sue other companies for such violations, it all seems a big disingenuous. Seems to me that CIBC is deliberately allowing for confusion of PC Financial with PC Bank. In my opinion, regulatory authorities ought to require them to use names that are more clearly different so that people will not make mistaken assumptions. Most people never look into these matters, I suspect, but to make it confusing even for those who do look into them is not conscionable in my books.
Speaking for myself, when I want to know if an institution is insured by CDIC, I don't look at the bank's website. I look at CDIC's website, as it is the authority. I would have been fooled without the input on this thread because I would have unconsciously assumed that PC Fin and PC Bank were one and the same.
1:07 pm
February 22, 2013
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Doug said
[snip]It also makes it harder for Loblaw to dump CIBC as a banking partner
[snip]
Somewhat facetiously. I would sooner expect Loblaw to BUY CIBC.
Last week I discovered all sorts of Presidents Choice products in my local Shoppers Drug Mart -- replacing name brands.
Greg
5:04 pm
April 6, 2013
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Loonie said
...I would have been fooled without the input on this thread because I would have unconsciously assumed that PC Fin and PC Bank were one and the same.
I did some research and found that President's Choice Financial is actually President's Choice Bank and not CIBC. This is from page 14 of Loblaw Companies Limited 2013 Annual Information Form:
Financial Services
President’s Choice Bank (“PC Bank”) makes available to consumers financial services under the President’s Choice Financial brand, including the President’s Choice Financial MasterCard®, a guaranteed investment certificate (“GIC”) product offered exclusively through the broker channel, and personal banking services, which are provided by the direct banking division of a major Canadian chartered bank. The Company [Loblaw Companies Limited and its subsidiaries] also offers home, auto, travel and pet insurance through its insurance entities and offers gift card and mobile phone services, including The Mobile Shop and PC Mobile.
It looks like PC Bank is the MasterCard issuer for the PC Financial MasterCard. PC Bank is the CDIC issuer for the broker-channel President's Choice Bank GIC's. The other personal banking services one can sign up for through PC Bank are actually provided by the direct banking division of the CDIC issuer CIBC.
5:27 pm
December 12, 2009
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Loonie & Norman1: I've seen the Loblaw' Annual Information Form in question and that's in part the information I used to specify that the President's Choice MasterCard is issued by President's Choice Bank, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Loblaw Companies Ltd. They fund their credit card receivables with President's Choice Bank GICs of 1-5 years and less than 1 year (short-term) as well as their own credit card receivables securitization trust. The GICs and term deposits issued by them are only sold through their partner deposit brokers and other financial intermediaries, either in your own name or in book-entry nominee form. That's the extent to which the products are issued by President's Choice Bank. You cannot get assistance or ask questions directly of PC Bank if you have a GIC through them through your intermediary.
Making matters more confusing, President's Choice MasterCard, while issued & funded by President's Choice Bank, a Loblaw Companies' wholly-owned subsidiary, contracts out the administration, processing, mailing and contact centre services to CUETS Financial Ltd, a wholly-owned subsidiary of The Toronto-Dominon Bank. So, if you call in regarding your PC MasterCard account, the call is routed to Winnipeg and handled by a TD Bank subsidiary, essentially. If you call in regarding your day-to-day banking account/mortgage/GIC, the call is routed to Scarborough/Toronto and handled by a CIBC contact centre agent.
So, essentially, you have a number of different companies using the "President's Choice" brand, which I don't necessarily think as a problem. Could they make things a bit more clear, perhaps in the 'footer' of every page? Perhaps.
However, using different 'partners' is definitely their strategy. Interestingly, The Mobile Shop is staffed and operated by a third-party company called Match Marketing Group, presumably with a revenue-sharing partnership with Loblaw.
Greg: Indeed, as for Loblaw buying CIBC, that would be a huge deal and massively dilutive to the controlling shareholders (the Westons saw their effective control stake in Loblaw Companies drop to about 45% from 62-63% with the Shoppers Drug Mart purchase). They could go it alone, but they'd be starting fresh on the banking side and CIBC is their own primary banker so I don't see that happening.
Selling Loblaw branded items in Shoppers is a key part of the strategy (I see PC has a soft chew version of their best-selling "Decadent" chocolate chip cookies which I'll have to try! Love soft chew chocolate chip cookies!) and they've even said they'll sell "some" Shoppers brands like Life brand (perhaps even replacing Equate, which would make sense since Wal-Mart Canada also sells that one). It'll be interesting to see if Shoppers eventually discontinues some of their duplicated private-label brands like Simply Food or their beauty brand Quo. There is some limitations in this area, though, with the Competition Bureau putting in place a five-year moratorium on attempting to squeeze margins from suppliers so it coulld be a few years before that happens. I could also see them dropping RBC Royal Bank as their banking & credit card partner within 3-5 years from now and introducing unstaffed PC Financial banking kiosks & ATMs (or CIBC ATMs) in Shoppers stores.
Cheers,
Doug
5:31 pm
October 21, 2013
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What?!?!
If PC Fin is a brand of PC Bank, and it includes 'banking services' and GiCs, then deposits at PC Fin have to be covered by CDIC separately than deposits at CiBC.
CDIC website clearly lists PC Bank as a separate institution, covered by them.
This makes the CIBC page on CDIC coverage very confusing. (Why am I surprised?) CIBC lists all the CIBC products along with the PC ones, giving the impression they are all under one CDiC umbrella.
I think the only solution is to ask CDIC for more info.
Although I have never tried to purchase one, I don't understand why it is felt that you can't buy GICs from PC Financial. On their website, they appear to offer them directly. http://www.banking.pcfinancial.....igninop=OB It doesn't say anything about having to go through a broker etc. It appears to direct you to your nearest "pavilion".
The more I read, the more sleazy I think this outfit is, and I am relieved that my only investment with them is in PC Points, which cost nothing and can be redeemed one of these days. I have no use for Mr. Weston. It is he alone who convinced the former mayor of Toronto to charge us for plastic bags, which Loblaws supposedly turned into some kind of charitable fund to make it look like they were being charitable with their own money, when it was really ours. I'm in favour of re-usable bags, but, again, this was a sleazy way of going about it. If you want to get rid of plastic bags, then just stop providing them; don't pretend it's a charitable thing. Even though the law was withdrawn, they still charge for the bags.
8:32 pm
April 6, 2013
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Loonie said
What?!?!
If PC Fin is a brand of PC Bank, and it includes 'banking services' and GiCs, then deposits at PC Fin have to be covered by CDIC separately than deposits at CiBC. CDIC website clearly lists PC Bank as a separate institution, covered by them.
...
That would be true if PC Bank, who run the PC Financial storefront, were to also issue the PC Financial-branded chequing accounts, savings accounts, and GIC's offered through the PC Financial pavilions and PC Financial web site.
But, PC Bank does not right now. Instead, PC Bank has CIBC issue those PC Financial-branded chequing accounts, savings accounts, and GIC's.
PC Bank does issues its own PC Bank-branded GIC's. But, it looks like those are only available through deposit brokers and not through the PC Financial pavilions or PC Financial web site.
I think a distinction can be made between the CDIC member who runs a storefront and the CDIC member who actually issue the account or investment. When a CDIC member runs a storefront, the CDIC member can issue the accounts and investments available through the storefront. But, not always.
Something similar happens through the TD Canada Trust storefront. When one deals with a TD Canada Trust branch, one can end up with CDIC-insured products issued by any of these four CDIC members:
- The Toronto-Dominion Bank
- The Canada Trust Company
- TD Mortgage Corporation
- TD Pacific Mortgage Corporation
8:49 pm
April 6, 2013
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Loonie said
...
Although I have never tried to purchase one, I don't understand why it is felt that you can't buy GICs from PC Financial. On their website, they appear to offer them directly. http://www.banking.pcfinancial.....igninop=OB It doesn't say anything about having to go through a broker etc. It appears to direct you to your nearest "pavilion".
...
One can buy GIC's directly from PC Financial storefronts that are run by PC Bank. They will be President's Choice Financial-branded GIC's and issued by CIBC.
For now, if one wants a President's Choice Bank-branded GIC issued by PC Bank, then one will have to go through a broker.
9:11 pm
October 21, 2013
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Thanks for your efforts to enlighten us, Norman. It seems that it only gets murkier the more one tries to understand.
I do have accounts with TD, and am aware of the first 3 of the 4 groups that you mention. They never mentioned the 4th one to me, and at the time (about 3 years ago) they said they only had the 3 different bodies within their system. However, in the case of TD, all 4 of these groups are separately named by CDIC as members. I have some old GICs with TD, which clearly name the division through which I have purchased them, although the info on the bank accounts themselves is less clear.
Similarly, CIBC and PC Bank are named separately as members, whereas PC Financial is not because it is apparently part and parcel of CiBC.
In my mind, there is no good excuse for setting up such a complicated structure that the average intelligent person cannot determine to what extent their deposits are covered.
I, for one, will make sure I never deal with PC Bank or Financial or anything that smells like it!
3:06 pm
December 12, 2009
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Loonie said
What?!?!
If PC Fin is a brand of PC Bank, and it includes 'banking services' and GiCs, then deposits at PC Fin have to be covered by CDIC separately than deposits at CiBC.
CDIC website clearly lists PC Bank as a separate institution, covered by them.This makes the CIBC page on CDIC coverage very confusing. (Why am I surprised?) CIBC lists all the CIBC products along with the PC ones, giving the impression they are all under one CDiC umbrella.
I think the only solution is to ask CDIC for more info.
Although I have never tried to purchase one, I don't understand why it is felt that you can't buy GICs from PC Financial. On their website, they appear to offer them directly. http://www.banking.pcfinancial.....igninop=OB It doesn't say anything about having to go through a broker etc. It appears to direct you to your nearest "pavilion".
The more I read, the more sleazy I think this outfit is, and I am relieved that my only investment with them is in PC Points, which cost nothing and can be redeemed one of these days. I have no use for Mr. Weston. It is he alone who convinced the former mayor of Toronto to charge us for plastic bags, which Loblaws supposedly turned into some kind of charitable fund to make it look like they were being charitable with their own money, when it was really ours. I'm in favour of re-usable bags, but, again, this was a sleazy way of going about it. If you want to get rid of plastic bags, then just stop providing them; don't pretend it's a charitable thing. Even though the law was withdrawn, they still charge for the bags.
What are you confused about? Forgive me if this is a bit blunt, but I thought (from your posts above) you understood that "President's Choice" (and all variants, including "President's Choice Financial") is a trademark owned by Loblaw Companies Ltd. and used under license (no idea till when and under what terms) by CIBC to operate President's Choice Financial banking services (including mortgages, line of credits, personal loans, GICs/term deposits sourced through online/pavilion channels and products of that nature).
President's Choice Bank does GICs/term deposits only but through partner deposit brokers (and broker-dealers, held in nominee book-entry form) only - not direct to the consumer. These are not branded as "President's Choice Financial GICs" at all! Rather, there is likely no branding at all. In your statement(s) with your intermediary, it'll say "Issued by President's Choice Bank" in small fine print, likely at or near the bottom. These use these, along with their securitization facilities, to fund the President's Choice Financial MasterCard - the only "President's Choice Financial"-branded product not sold by CIBC. I think they do this to keep everything separate. They also separately contract out application and customer maintenance processing, card embossing and 24/7/365 contact centre services for the President's Choice Bank-issued President's Choice Financial MasterCard to CUETS Financial Ltd, a subsidiary of The Toronto-Dominion Bank, under long-term contract.
Loonie, it sounds like you're mistaking "President's Choice Financial GICs" and "President's Choice Bank GICs". While similar names, they are completely distinct entities. As I said above, PC Bank does not issue GICs via its website. In fact, PC Bank doesn't maintain a public website. The only information is "buried" within the Loblaw Companies Ltd Investor Relations --> Financial Reporting section of its corporate website. There, they update their Basel Pillar III financial and capital adequacy disclosures quarterly as required by the federal regulator, OSFI. (The disclosures are also available on OSFI's website.)
From the latest quarterly filing, you can see:
Presidents Choice Bank Overview
PC Bank is a Schedule I Canadian chartered bank governed by the Bank Act (Canada) and is an indirectly wholly owned subsidiary of Loblaw Companies Limited (LCL). In association with other financial institutions, PC Bank offers, under the President’s Choice Financial® brand, a complete line of retail financial services products to individuals who reside in Canada. The key business lines of PC Bank are as follows:Credit Card
PC Bank launched its credit card program in 2001 and currently offers the President’s Choice Financial MasterCard (PC MasterCard) across Canada. The product attributes include no annual fee and a competitive rewards program which allows customers to earn and redeem PC Points for free groceries at LCL stores. PC Bank records the credit card receivables and associated funding on its balance sheet.Core Banking
PC Bank launched its core banking business in 1998 through a strategic partnership with a major Canadian Chartered Bank (“Strategic Partner”). Under the President’s Choice Financial brand, retail banking products are sold online and in LCL stores at banking pavilions operated by the Strategic Partner. All deposits, investments and lending products issued under the PC Financial brand are recorded by the Strategic Partner on its balance sheet. PC Bank earns interest income and fees through this partnership.GIC’s
PC Bank launched a broker originated GIC program in 2010. The GIC’s offered by PC Bank are insured by Canadian Deposit Insurance Corporation (CDIC). PC Bank sells nominee name GIC’s through a number of brokers in Canada.
Small mistake - it looks like they don't sell GICs through deposit brokers in your own name - only in book-entry nominee form through your full-service and/or discount investment broker. Interesting that it was only launched in 2010.
The "Strategic Partner" is CIBC. They clearly differentiate that, with the exception of the PC Financial MasterCard, all products branded as PC Financial are sold by CIBC's direct banking division. PC Bank GICs carry no branding and can't be held directly. As per the above, Loblaw, through PC Bank, likely earns a share of the interest & fee income generated by CIBC's operation of PC Financial products and services in exchange for not having to pay rent for its pavilions, I'm guessing.
Hope that clarifies! 
Cheers,
Doug
3:28 pm
December 12, 2009
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Norman1 said
Loonie said
What?!?!
If PC Fin is a brand of PC Bank, and it includes 'banking services' and GiCs, then deposits at PC Fin have to be covered by CDIC separately than deposits at CiBC. CDIC website clearly lists PC Bank as a separate institution, covered by them.
...That would be true if PC Bank, who run the PC Financial storefront, were to also issue the PC Financial-branded chequing accounts, savings accounts, and GIC's offered through the PC Financial pavilions and PC Financial web site.
But, PC Bank does not right now. Instead, PC Bank has CIBC issue those PC Financial-branded chequing accounts, savings accounts, and GIC's.
PC Bank does issues its own PC Bank-branded GIC's. But, it looks like those are only available through deposit brokers and not through the PC Financial pavilions or PC Financial web site.
I think a distinction can be made between the CDIC member who runs a storefront and the CDIC member who actually issue the account or investment. When a CDIC member runs a storefront, the CDIC member can issue the accounts and investments available through the storefront. But, not always.
Something similar happens through the TD Canada Trust storefront. When one deals with a TD Canada Trust branch, one can end up with CDIC-insured products issued by any of these four CDIC members:
- The Toronto-Dominion Bank
- The Canada Trust Company
- TD Mortgage Corporation
- TD Pacific Mortgage Corporation
Thanks Norman1. Small clarifications that might help. PC Bank doesn't brand its GICs - and to help not add to the naming confusion. Instead, they are simply shown as "issued by PC Bank" in customer statements with their full- or self-service investment broker. My earlier statement said deposit brokers issued PC Bank GICs but that appears not the case. Important to note they are only available in book-entry, nominee form, meaning The Canadian Depository for Securities Ltd, a TMX Group wholly-owned subsidiary and administrator/clearer for investment brokers in Canada, holds legal title to the instruments in trust for the CDS Participant. The CDS Participant, in turn, through segregated trust accounts, allocates those units proportionately among clients that hold them. A bit of a "technical explanation" and I only recently learned how this works, through my own research.
Also, CIBC operates and runs the PC Financial pavilions (which are not "bank branches"). As they are not "branches" with traditional teller services, likely no CDIC decal has to be displayed and may not be subject to certain "notice of branch closure" rules (though I'm not certain). I used to think CIBC paid rent but it sounds like Loblaw, through PC Bank, earns a percentage of the net interest and fee income (after expenses, of course) from PC Financial products and services from CIBC as part of their partnership.
Cheers,
Doug
3:36 pm
December 12, 2009
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Loonie said
Thanks for your efforts to enlighten us, Norman. It seems that it only gets murkier the more one tries to understand.
I do have accounts with TD, and am aware of the first 3 of the 4 groups that you mention. They never mentioned the 4th one to me, and at the time (about 3 years ago) they said they only had the 3 different bodies within their system. However, in the case of TD, all 4 of these groups are separately named by CDIC as members. I have some old GICs with TD, which clearly name the division through which I have purchased them, although the info on the bank accounts themselves is less clear.
Similarly, CIBC and PC Bank are named separately as members, whereas PC Financial is not because it is apparently part and parcel of CiBC.In my mind, there is no good excuse for setting up such a complicated structure that the average intelligent person cannot determine to what extent their deposits are covered.
I, for one, will make sure I never deal with PC Bank or Financial or anything that smells like it!
You can do as you wish, Loonie, but they clearly say, in multiple places, that several strategic partners operate the "President's Choice Financial" brand. CIBC for its banking, investment and lending services. PC Bank for its book-entry, nominee form issued GICs sold only through full- and self-service brokers. In additional, several companies operate the "PC Insurance" brand of products. I don't hold that against them. In fact, it could be seen as a source of strength!
CDIC, for its part, has even added this at the bottom of the CDIC Members List page:
Note: Some CDIC members use a registered trademark company or a direct banking division to sell financial products that are eligible for deposit insurance. Depositors should contact the member institution for confirmation.
Cheers,
Doug
9:53 pm
October 21, 2013
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Doug, I am not a banker, but I am not stupid.
However, I can't even follow what you are saying with any confidence that I really understand it, never mind what "they" are saying.
I did see the addendum on the CDIC website advising us to ask the member institutions to answer our questions. This, to me, is not satisfactory. I expect to be able to get the answers from CDIC and am not confident I can trust the bank to tell me the truth, especially in a field where answers seem to depend on who is doing the talking on a given day. CDIC ought to be the authority on what is covered by them. You can be sure that if it came time to pay out, CDIC would know precisely what is covered.
The only safe course for those of us who can't be confident of our understanding is to avoid the institutions in question. As a famous rich man once said, you should only invest in what you can understand.
10:05 pm
October 21, 2013
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By way of comparison, I found this quote on the Oaken website FAQs:
"QUESTION: If I have Home Trust GICs and additional deposits with Oaken Financial, does this increase my eligible deposit insurance coverage?
ANSWER: No, all deposits across both brands are with Home Trust. The Oaken brand does not provide separate coverage."
That's a nice clear statement that tells me exactly where I'm at. CIBC/PC should do the same but as far as I can tell they have not chosen to do so.
Please write your comments in the forum.