Motus has launched | Page 4 | motusbank | Discussion forum

Top It Up said
According to the GIC Chart - https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/gic-rates/

that 3.XX% rate is available NOW for a range 24 - 60 months - why wait?  

waiting for non GIC rate, dont want lock in...

Norman1 said

Loonie said

… They will have to do something to get people to bother opening an account with them, and this is not it as it doesn't even compete with EQ or Alterna, both of whom advertise their HISAs a lot.…

There is something. But, only for those who use Interac debit a lot.

The 2¼% rate on their high interest savings account is not great. But, motusbank allows unlimited Interac Direct Payments against the account:

• Unlimited debit purchases, bill payments and withdrawals¹

¹Transactions include; self-serve transactions such as; bill payments and transfers between accounts via: Online, Mobile or Telephone Banking and ABMs, Interac® Direct Payment purchases, pre-authorized debit, and ABM withdrawals; personal service transactions such as; all in-branch withdrawals, transfers, bill payments and Member Service for transfers and bill payments and cheque transactions.

So, one can earn 2¼% on one's float for debit card and pre-authorized debits instead of something like ½% on a chequing account for the same.  

You need to open up a chequing account for Bill payments and Pre-Authorized Debits . HISA allows only unlimited ATM deposit and use of ATM card at a retailer.
Luckily you can set up a SWEEP feature so that you can keep a set amount in your chequing, and the bank will transfer automatically once a day from your HISA to your chequing to replenish it to that amount.

Reference:
Their website legal subscript now shows for HISA:
1 Transactions include; transfers between accounts, Interac® Direct Payment purchases, ABM withdrawals and cheques performed by you via online or mobile banking or, our Member Service team (where applicable).

Their website legal subscript now shows for chequing:
1 Transactions include; bill payments, transfers between accounts, Interac® Direct Payment purchases, pre-authorized debit, ABM withdrawals and cheques performed by you via online or mobile banking or, our Member Service team (where applicable).

The Sweep feature is a very innovative feature, though...how does that work, will the automatic transfer to HISA occur at the end of the day just before the switchover to the next calendar day so your HISA will earn interest on that swept amount for the day?

Also, did you say just Meridian and Motus offer this feature or does CWB's Motive offer it, too?

Cheers,
Doug

Doug said
Actually, a savings account will automatically allow pre-authorized debits. You could technically use your Hubert HISA for all your automatic pre-authorized debits. They just don't promote that fact. Just make sure you use the transit number under which your Motus HISA and chequing accounts have been domiciled (i.e., from your statements), and it'll work. I can assure you with 100% confidence of this.

Essentially, if you can set up your Motus HISA as a linked external account with your other non-Motus FI, then pre-authorized debits can be used since bank-to-bank transfers use the same EFT system as PADs.

Now, in terms of bill payments, that they can limit by the fact they can only let you specify your chequing account as the debit account for bill payments.

Cheers,
Doug  

If I set up a preauthorized debit for my Rogers credit card payment for example, I HAVE to enclose a void cheque when I complete the PAD form.
https://rogersbank.com/legaldocs/en/RogersBank_PreAuthorizedDebit.pdf

Also, even if I could input the info for my HISA onto the PAD form, I'd be worried about getting bank charges from Motus.

Briguy said

I believe for Motive and Meridian that the automatic transfer from HISA to Chequing or vice versa occurs at end of day ( to top up your chequing to your minimum value, or to reduce it to your maximum value ).

Motive doesn't offer this. They have an overdraft feature, which I haven't signed up for, that is free if you transfer money by the end of the day yourself from your HISA into your chequing. So you can have a large cheque coming off for rent for example on a certain day, and then transfer the money same day into your chequing account from your HISA. They also allow 2 preauthorized debits a month on your HISA. Most other transactions on your HISA also count towards those free 2, except for ATM deposits and withdrawals and transfers between your Motive accounts.  

Ah, thanks for clarifying that re: Motive. That sounds exactly like Tangerine's overdraft service. If you cover the overdraft on a Tangerine chequing account before the end of the day, there will be no interest and no fee. Also, with Tangerine, if you fail to cover the overdraft the same day in a month and have a subsequent uncovered overdraft the same day, they don't charge a second $5.00 fee - you'd only be charged the one fee for that month. I, too, have an approved $5,000 overdraft limit, but have never used it.

As for the PADs on your savings account with Motive, yes, that's the Savvy Savings Account. Their regular Motive Savings Account, which pays a lower rate (2-2.25%, I think) allows unlimited free debit transactions, including PADs.

That Sweep feature with Motus + Meridian does sound pretty cool.

I'd be curious to know if you can use your Motus debit card to make a deposit at an Acculink (credit union) ATM that isn't an Exchange ATM network member. Apparently, it's possible to do this with Alterna Bank, since it uses the same platform as Alterna Savings (the credit union). Acculink is supposed to be a credit union-only surcharge-free ATM network, so if you can, then that's a game changer if you live in the prairie provinces where The Exchange ATM Network is not common (only HSBC, in Saskatoon and Regina, and TCU Financial Group are on The Exchange in Saskatchewan - everyone else is on only Acculink).

Cheers,
Doug

Norman1 said

Briguy said

…

Also, even if I could input the info for my HISA onto the PAD form, I'd be worried about getting bank charges from Motus.

motusbank could return the debit as NCP "No Debit Allowed" (reason 907). Rogers Bank could then charge a returned item fee.

I'm surprised motusbank has removed preauthorized debits and bill payments from their HISA features after just a month.  

They could, but since pre-authorized debits include bank-to-bank transfers, they'd essentially have to manually process each and every pre-authorized debit and it would be inordinately time consuming, not to mention cost prohibitive. I've also never seen that done in my many years of experience, other than potentially when an account is blocked (i.e., deceased account before probate is provided, etc.) then funds would definitely be returned for that reason code (i.e., "no debits allowed").

I would test it first and see if you can send a pre-authorized debit (i.e., a "pull" money transfer) from your Motus HISA and, if you can, then PADs for bill payees would work just the same way.

Bill payments are definitely something they can easily restrict, by only allowing the customer, which they also call a "member" even though Motus customers are not Meridian owners, to only select a Motus chequing account as the debit account.

Cheers,
Doug

Briguy said
As far as I can figure out from the web, Motus debit card holders only have free access to the 3700 ATM's of the Exchange network, not to the Acculink network like Alterna Bank. I guess they are not too worried about the Prairie provinces, because there are a lot of Exchange ATMs in Ontario and British Columbia.  

Yeah, but what I want to figure out is whether Meridian Credit Union is one of the credit unions not on the Acculink network. If they are, then that's correct. If they aren't, and are on the Acculink network, then that's likely incorrect on their website.

I've noticed a few inaccuracies on Motus' website, including the no mention of PADs on the high interest savings account, which isn't correct as any savings account can have PADs debited from it. They refer to something called "online cheques," which could be a funny way of saying PADs, but that would definitely be...unprecedented terminology in terms of them being the first to use it! 😉

Cheers,
Doug

Briguy said

I called Meridian Bank today and confirmed 100% that they are only on the Exchange Network, and have nothing to do with the Acculink Network.

There are quite a few credit unions on the Exchange Network in Manitoba and Saskatchewan in the main cities only;
and Alberta, Ontario and the Maritimes have a lot all over.
National Bank and HSBC have a nation wide presence in the main cities and are on the Exchange Network.  

Thanks for checking, but I wonder if that is their standard, scripted answer. Often what a company tells you is not reality and I suspect this may be the case, so need someone to do a real ATM deposit at an Acculink-only ATM to attempt it.

If, indeed, it's Exchange network only, that's actually not correct. National Bank only has branches and ATMs in Quebec and some of the major cities in Ontario. They might have 1 branch in each of Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, and Winnipeg. HSBC is basically non-existent in Saskatchewan and Manitoba and only in Calgary, Edmonton, Medicine Hat, Red Deer, and Lethbridge (rumours persist of them exiting at least two of the latter three of those cities). East of Quebec, due to more branch closures (or planned future branch closures), HSBC has only 1 branch in each of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland and Labrador. They are non-existent in PEI. So, I wouldn't characterize them as having a national branch network - they're basically a B.C. and Ontario regional bank, with a handful of branches in each of Alberta and Quebec. So, that's what I say, outside of the major urban cities, Exchange network is non-viable for a day-to-day banking/chequing account w/debit card. You'd actually be better off with Tangerine, since at least you can use Scotiabank ATMs at the 7-Elevens surcharge-free and at Scotiabank branches to make deposits/withdraw cash.

We'll need to test it, though, to see if one can actually use an Acculink ATM (since Motus is on the same platform as Meridian). Otherwise, it's roughly on par with CWB's Motive Financial and that would give Alterna Bank the edge.

Cheers,
Doug

Briguy said
I read that Manulife Bank added Exchange ATM machines to every Macs Milk in Winnipeg. At least you're covered in Winnipeg if you have Motus 🙂

Motive Financial and Motus Bank have one free cheque book, Alterna doesn't 🙂

I'm kidding- Alterna is better in many ways due to the coverdraft protection, belonging to Exchange and Interlink networks, and especially for those of us since it is based in Ontario with physical branches here if you need to see someone. The interest rates aren't quite as good as Manitoba credit unions or Motus Bank but much better than the big banks.

At this point if I had to have one institution for RRIF it would either be Motus Bank or Hubert, probably Hubert.  

I <3 Hubert, too...their D.O.G.s is a cool idea. And they provide wonderful service.

That said, poor Implicity Financial does not get the kind of love and attention that Hubert does. Sure, they don't have a "refer a friend" promotion like Achieva and Hubert, but they do offer a debit card, surcharge-free Acculink ATM cash withdrawals (in addition to deposits), Me-to-Me transfers, no fees of any kind (except for fees on point-of-sale purchases, but it is a savings account after all). Their e-Statements are beautiful and even more detailed than Hubert's, so they'd be comparable to Motive, Motus, Meridian, and Coast Capital. They recently added e-documents, so you can get your t-slips online now without having to wait in the mail (hope Hubert adds that soon), have secure e-mail + live chat functionality, and they're adding paperless account opening and account linking later this year. And, their service is top notch, like Hubert. They also offer 1-year GICs on RRIFs.

Yes, you can use the Manulife Bank ATMs for cash withdrawals, but I haven't analyzed whether there are more of those in rural locations of the prairies relative to 7-Eleven/Scotiabank ATMs.

In the major centres in the prairies, Motus and Motive are equally fine. Not sure which I'd go with; I want Motive to succeed, but given that they've only managed to attract a relatively small ~$350 million in deposits (thankfully, they at least disclose their Motive Financial deposit base unlike many of the Manitoba CUs), I worry that Canadian Western Bank may pull a BMO or a Vancity and abandon their direct banking strategy. That said, they're a scrappy little bank and their divisional manager is semi-active on social media, so I like that. It's hard to say, on that basis, whether Motive or Motus. Maybe Motus?

Alterna Bank doesn't offer free cheques, that's true, but you can order a book of 200 cheques through third-party providers for ~$40 all in, which is half the price (or more) that D+H would charge (they charge between $38-42 for a book of between 50-100 cheques). You can order less cheques with ASAP Cheques, for as little as ~$25 all-in, but then your per-cheque cost rises a bit. DiscountCheques.com is another good one that gets favourable ratings.

Cheers,
Doug

Doug said
Briguy et al.,

In checking each of the Canadian Credit Union Association's ATM Locator tool (link: https://locator.ccua.com/) and the Acculink ding-free™ ATM locator website (link: https://www.ding-free.ca/), I've confirmed with both websites that Meridian Credit Union, Ltd., is indeed one of the few Canadian credit unions (there are only handful of them, literally!) that isn't an Acculink (ding-free™) ATM network member. So, indeed, that means that Meridian and, by extension, Motus Bank can only access Exchange ATMs (lots in the prairie and atlantic provinces that they won't be able to access).

So, on that basis, Alterna Bank beats Motus Bank (and Motive Financial) by almost every metric. The big "knock" against Alterna, though, is their maximum balance limitation.

Cheers,
Doug  

Also, you avoid any potential complications of probate later in a different province like Loonie said. Like you mentioned Alterna is guaranteed like Motus, Peoples Trust,Motive Financial and any other bank up to 100,000 by CDIC. And not sure if it matters, but Manitoba credit unions are guaranteed by a corporation that is not a provincial body, whereas Deposit Insurance Corporation of Ontario is a provincial agency. So if interest rates were relatively the same, I'd put my 100,000 in a CDIC guaranteed Ontario bank first ( Motus or Alterna ), 250,000 in Ontario credit union second, 100,000 dollars in Motive Financial third ( Alberta bank ), and an unlimited amount in a Manitoba credit union fourth.

Since I want to have all my RRSP and later RRIF in one FI, I'm keeping it with Hubert. ( I'm not including any other type of investments like stock market ).