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So, I called back to Motus around 7pm.

I told her I wanted to discuss opening my RIF. She said "at motusbank?" Well, uh, that's why I called YOU.

The CSR then informed me that "we do not offer RIFs at this time."
You can imagine my reaction *&^!@#

But I pressed on. It's getting to the point where curiosity alone propels me. How bad can it get, I wonder?

After putting me on hold for a while, she finally agreed that, yes indeed, they do offer RIFs and that, behold, SHE can HELP me! I asked if she had a record of my earlier call today but she did not answer me. She said they were very busy today and it might take 2 days for a response. I asked to be transferred to someone on the investment side, but she refused. (On a previous call, this was not a problem.)

She now says FOUR documents are required! The statement from Oaken, a transfer form, some other form I didn't understand but I think was internal but I still have to deal with, and the beneficiary form is separate (since I asked).

However, she cannot and will not send me anything until I first send them the Oaken statement. Much as I resent this, because it includes information on other accounts that are none of their business, I have done so.

At one point, I asked to speak to a supervisor. She wanted to know why! LOL. But, after a wait on hold, was told none were available - of course.

However after this request, she speeded up and told me that if I sent the Oaken statement to her attention, she would send me the forms today. I sent it immediately after i hung up. However, there has been no further word from anyone at Motus, and the day is over here.

At another point in the conversation, she said it would take "at least" 2 days for the forms to be sent out after they receive my Oaken statement. I note that the timing is indefinite. Considering everything, that is a scary thought! They may not have a deadline, but i do.

Hubert is looking more and more tempting. As of Wednesday I was a fully enrolled customer at Motus. In other words, I was in the same position I'm in at Hubert. If I were transferring this RIF to Hubert, I would have filled in the form and put it in the mail by now.

If motus is going to continue to be so unhelpful, it's going to end up in the same trash bin as several other online banks where my expectations are low and I only use them for deals I can't refuse.

Loonie said
So, I called back to Motus around 7pm.

I told her I wanted to discuss opening my RIF. She said "at motusbank?" Well, uh, that's why I called YOU.

The CSR then informed me that "we do not offer RIFs at this time."
You can imagine my reaction *&^!@#

... to be a "fly on the wall" to witness your reaction when she told you that. 😉

But I pressed on. It's getting to the point where curiosity alone propels me. How bad can it get, I wonder?

After putting me on hold for a while, she finally agreed that, yes indeed, they do offer RIFs and that, behold, SHE can HELP me! I asked if she had a record of my earlier call today but she did not answer me. She said they were very busy today and it might take 2 days for a response. I asked to be transferred to someone on the investment side, but she refused. (On a previous call, this was not a problem.)

She now says FOUR documents are required! The statement from Oaken, a transfer form, some other form I didn't understand but I think was internal but I still have to deal with, and the beneficiary form is separate (since I asked).

It's very odd that you couldn't just send the Oaken RRIF statement that they require with the Motus RRIF transfer form and application form. It makes no sense to me why she can't just e-mail you the blank Motus RRIF forms. That leads me to believe that your suspicion of Motus just wanting to peruse your total net worth to see what share of your wallet they can bring over to Motus is the correct one. Otherwise, if it was to expedite the transfer process by ensuring everything was in order (i.e., all in cash; no GICs that can't be transferred; account number(s) correct, etc.), then there should be no reason why you shouldn't be able to send everything in together.

At one point, I asked to speak to a supervisor. She wanted to know why! LOL. But, after a wait on hold, was told none were available - of course.

Geez, she's probably worried you're going to complain about her when, in reality, I suspect you just wanted to raise Motus' shortcomings in their processes that are going to end up in preventing them from having success, correct?

Hubert is looking more and more tempting. As of Wednesday I was a fully enrolled customer at Motus. In other words, I was in the same position I'm in at Hubert. If I were transferring this RIF to Hubert, I would have filled in the form and put it in the mail by now.

It would be in the mail; Hubert would be just receiving the form right now and likely would've sent it off to Oaken (the losing institution) either today or yesterday. So, are you still going to transfer your RRIF to Motus Bank, or are you going to pop the paperwork in the mail to Hubert tomorrow?

And, if you decide to go with Hubert, with their lack of a 1-year GIC in a RRIF, which, from the sounds of it, is less crucial for you than the lack of a RRIF savings account, which Oaken lacks, how would you handle that? I'm just curious...would you increase your allocation to a Hubert RRIF HISA and then allocate the remainder in 2-5 year RRIF GICs?

If motus is going to continue to be so unhelpful, it's going to end up in the same trash bin as several other online banks where my expectations are low and I only use them for deals I can't refuse.  

I agree...Motus Bank is doing a lot of things right, from launching all kinds of products, with digital application and external bank account verification processes, nice website design, nice online banking interface, and decent GIC and mortgage rates; however, where they're failing is in their poor customer service and antiquated processes with respect to EFT DRs/CRs and in RRIF applications.

Cheers,
Doug

Yes, my conversation with the supervisor, if it had occurred, would have been more or less as you suggest. However, I doubt this would have much impact. i would primarily hope to expedite the necessary forms on the theory that a supervisor could do this if they wanted to.

Their responses are not always clear and sometimes contradictory, but I get the impression they want to fill out part of the transfer form themselves before they send it to me and this is why they want the statement first - assuming their customers are dummies apparently.

To put all these delays in context, the first guy I dealt with at Motus, by email, told me I shouldn't submit a transfer form UNTIL the Oaken GIC came due! He didn't mention how closely guarded the forms are. If I'd believed him, it would still be at Oaken for an extra month at least! - presumably sitting there gaining no interest whatsoever.

Motus won't know squat about my net worth from the Oaken statement, although they may think they do. Among other things, this particular statement only covers registered accounts.

Hubert has always been an easy back-up plan, as they have no transfer-out fees. I would just park the funds in RIF savings. Two years is too long for this particular sum. I am only interested in savings, 1 year and 18 month, i.e. no longer than 2020. I hesitate because I don't like to "use" Hubert in this way, when I don't intend to invest it there. However, it is they who decided not to offer a one year RIF, despite my excellent advice! lol

I will try the phone again tomorrow and see what happens before I decide.

It concerns me that the CSRs seem to know so little about RIFs. I have received many contradictory answers from them. It doesn't bode well for the future, as I had planned to transfer the rest of my RIFs to Motus as they mature.

Loonie said
After bankers' hours Tuesday, I received a message through the motusbank message system (not by email) saying that they are sending the forms to me by courier and that I am to return them by courier (let's hope it's prepaid!). If the forms arrive Wednesday (which they should as I am in the same city as motus), it will have only taken 15 days to get them!

Are you serious!? Maybe they're sending you pre-filled RIF application forms, because they don't want any errors on the forms (which goes to your earlier point about them not trusting their customers) and their policies prohibit sending sensitive information via e-mail, but if they're just blank RIF forms...honestly, they couldn't have sent them to you via e-mail!?

As to your comment, yeah, let's hope they send you a prepaid return envelope and further that they've not couriered the documents to you C.O.D. 😉

I would have preferred to receive this message by email, where I am more likely to see it.

Agreed...Coast Capital Savings is kind of that way, too. Despite saying they can communicate with you via e-mail on sensitive matters if you submit the contact web form while logged in to online banking, they still call your home telephone number, which is most annoying. (Rick may have some other Coast Capital annoyances to share, if he's following this thread.)

I would have preferred the forms to be sent by email, as I was recently assured by CSR that they would be. There is a reasonable likelihood that I won't be home when this package arrives and will then have to wait 2 more days to pick it up at some repository in an illogical location. Every time I have to go pick something up, it is in a different location!

One small "plus" for Motus: The CSR signed the message with her complete name.  

That's good the CSR has given you their full name, but you're quite right that it's likely you won't be home when the package arrives. If it is coming via UPS, you can register online at "ups.ca" using your name that you commonly have items addressed to you as and an e-mail address and then you can pre-sign, electronically, for the item, which allows the UPS driver to leave - at your door or other designated location - any packages that are "signature required". The only ones they can't leave are "signature and ID of someone age 19 or over required" packages. It's possible Motus has sent it this way, but since they've already verified your ID, it's unlikely they'd go to the extra expense. I have also registered for a Purolator account, too, and filled out a Signature Not Required form that allows Purolator to leave "Signature Required" packages at my door and they scan the barcode sticker on my door. Canada Post won't leave unattended packages at my door, but will usually leave them in our suburban community mailbox. The only one that doesn't have an SNR program anymore is FedEx Canada, which, thankfully, very few companies seem to use (at least out west).

Cheers,
Doug

I initiated a transfer from my new motus account to my BNS account on Friday, May 8 just after 12:00 noon.
It took until May 15 to be in the BNS account and deducted from the motus account.
I thought it would appear on the 14th but it seems that it will take three full days after the day initiated.

Long time!

Doug, is this what you wanted to know?

Doug said

Yes, thank you, threeoakwest. I assume this was a regular Me-to-Me Transfer that you initiated from your new Motus Bank account (chequing or savings) whereby you'd debit your BNS account and credit your Motus Bank account? In other words, you're not referring to the initial "test" CR to verify an external bank account?

Do you happen to know what time on Friday you initiated it? Their cut-off time seems to be 6 pm Eastern (3 pm Pacific) so if you did it after 6 pm Eastern, it would likely go on Monday's EFT batch.

Nevertheless, that's still a far slower than average EFT processing time than, say, the "Big 5", Tangerine, Simplii, Coast Capital Savings, Alterna Bank, Manulife Bank, HSBC, Hubert Financial, and most other Canadian financial institutions.

Normal processing time for bank-to-bank transfers should be, assuming it was done after cut-off time on a Friday, would be between end of day Monday (same-day processing on both ends; there are now three daily clearing windows across the country) and end of day Tuesday (next-day processing).

So, if done after cut-off time, Motus is fully 1 extra day beyond the less timely, next-day processing timeframe. If done before cut-off time, Motus is an arguably unacceptably 2 extra days beyond the less timely, next-day processing timeframe.

For this reason and the lack of EFT and cheque deposit "access to funds" limits, Motus, you're out of contention as a potential Coast Capital Savings replacement. In contention: Motive Financial, Alterna Bank, and EQ Bank (leaning towards Motive Financial). Potential dark horse contender (if they were to add free, unlimited Interac e-Transfers): Wealth One Bank of Canada

Cheers,
Doug  

As has been discussed previously, Motus and its parent Meridian seem to take the prize for having the slowest electronic transfers of all.
Must say I have had a very positive experience with Manulife Advantage Combo chequing/savings Acct. - transfers are in no more than one day, and sometimes even the same day when pushed from the external linked acct.
EQ and Alterna are very good for HISAs.

Doug said
Thank you, canadian.100, for adding Manulife's Advantage account. I was tempted to add them as a potential second "dark horse" contender for my business, and they may well get me as a savings account customer, but they'd need to either (a) eliminate the $1,000 minimum balance requirement to waive all fees or (b) allow customers to maintain their minimum balance requirement to waive all fees in any account type (i.e., RSP, TFSA, or a non-registered GIC) to become my main day-to-day banking account. 🙂

They may yet do that...and if they do, I'll add them to the "free chequing" chart. In the meantime, if the minimum threshold for "competitiveness" is to remain 1.50%, I do think, out of fairness, Peter should re-add Manulife Bank's Advantage account to the chart. What do you think?

Cheers,
Doug  

I doubt Manulife would drop the min $1K balance to have a no charge chequing acct. This product is not the same as a straight HISA at say EQ or Alterna Bank. Manulife is in the league of the big banks and none of the big banks have such a product. EQ etc. are not "A" level organizations as we have discussed previously and 2.3% HISA interest on an HISA at EQ, Alterna etc. is not exactly spectacular either. I can live with 1.5% for a free chequing acct and get some interest on the $1K required. On my Simplii Chequing acct balance I earn a grand 0.05% now, and 1.2% on my Simplii HISA balance. So I think Manulife competes quite well for Simplii clients and I find Manulife service excellent and their site very user friendly - fast transfers, easy to add linked accts etc. etc. is worth something too compared to the complaints I see noted in this blog about other financial institutions. (Loonie and others have included many of their negative experiences with the range of FIs they have dealt with - which is useful info for readers.)

Loonie said
The comedy of errors continues.
Since my Purolator package has not yet arrived, I had to go to the Tracking service to check on its progress.
I discovered it has been sent to another city and was accepted by someone whom I have never heard of this afternoon.

Oh my goodness...do you know what the address on the parcel was? That would indicate whether a Motus screw-up, or a screw-up by Purolator.

Once again, I made my displeasure clear.
I was then told that a message would be sent to the person who had sent out the package, asking her to look into it.

That'd good you raised this issue immediately.

This is not good enough, as this requires immediate action.

Indeed, if the parcel was never opened, that's one thing but it's still a serious data breach of your sensitive personal information (i.e., Motus has pre-filled the forms). If it's just blank forms, then the only thing that person would know is your first and last names, which is still serious. But it raises the question, why couldn't they have e-mailed you blank forms, as you suggested?

If the parcel was opened or tampered with, they'd better come forward with a specific dollar figure of compensation and an action plan to ensure your information wasn't duplicated by the unintended recipient.

I asked to speak to a supervisor. As per usual, after a long hold, none were available.
I asked why I shouldn't just transfer my RIF to another bank, and there was no response.

Good question. At this point, I'd either be keeping it at Oaken, transferring to Hubert, or opening an Achieva or Outlook RIF if I'd required a 1-year RIF GIC.

Finally, she spoke to another "advisor", and somehow between the two of them they decided to "expedite" the process. They will, by some means or other, send me a new package and will try to retrieve the old one, so they say.
A supervisor is still supposed to call me, sometime.
I am sticking with this process because, at this point, I want to see how it all pans out and if they are ever able to complete the transaction which I asked for on May 1. It's become a research project of a sort.  

Yeah, I'd be inclined to see this through as well, only to transfer it out a year later and then tell them why. I would also demand waiver of the transfer out fee, too. 😉

Cheers,
Doug

No, there is no specific address to tell me where the package was delivered. It just gives a first name of the recipient, her function "reception", and the city. Since it is Motus, not me, who was the customer, i don't think Purolator would tell me any more.
This appears to be a business address. Must be a very large company since "reception" didn't seem to know I don't work there.

Interestingly, it is a city in the Niagara region, where Meridian has a lot of business.

I am more than annoyed at the security breach. I can never know for sure if it was opened or if it was really retrieved.

I am fairly confident that the form would have been pre-filled, as I can think of no other reason for them to do things in the back-assed way they have chosen, requiring first a statement from Oaken before they will send me the form.

I may yet abandon the whole thing. I'm starting to wonder what else can go wrong. But I do want to see what exactly they put on this form, so I will at least wait for it to arrie somehow.

Yeah, that's good, Stephen, but a complaint as serious and as privacy-related as this should go, first, to the Motus Supervisor and then immediately to Motus' Privacy Officer, possibly with a Cc: to the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. If, indeed, this was couriered to an office outside of Motus and/or Meridian (it's possible they sent it to their head office in the Niagara region first), my understanding is federally-regulated companies have a legal obligation to report all data breaches - no matter how small - to the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. Failing to do so could result in, potentially, a million dollar fine to Motus Bank (which would almost certainly have a material impact on Motus' Q2 2019 filing at the end of June, given how small their deposit and loan base is).

Likely not what Loonie was intending, but this story has the potential to have "legs" and may well make national news, particularly if others have had similar issues and end up going to the media. The media solicit further stories and Loonie could well end up being interviewed by CBC's Go Public, provided he or she was willing to do that (not certain he or she would want to, though).

I agree...Loonie, I'd wait to see who received the package first. If, indeed, they sent it up the chain of command to Meridian for a "second set of eyes" before sending it to you, then that may be fine.

Once you're certain of who saw the package and what it contained (possibly contains a copy of your Oaken statement), then yes, I would probably look at another option for your RIF.

It's too bad Motus doesn't have its act together - they've got a great website, great rates, slick platform, but in terms of their back-office administrative processes, they're failing miserably. 🙁

Cheers,
Doug