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Email this2:39 pm
March 20, 2022
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I transferred my TFSA into Motive Financial (Tangerine TFSA to Motive TFSA). I now want to transfer a portion of it out of my Motive TFSA to my TFSA at another institution. Motive is telling me that there is a 30 day hold on the funds, and that this is their policy (apparently a relatively new policy). Yes, 30 days. I have never experienced such a long hold period.
Is this even legal? There has to be some legal limit... Does anyone have information on that?
3:19 pm
September 30, 2017
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Blindsided ? I also have a TFSA account with them. It is not written anywhere, isn't it ... now I know.
4:50 pm
January 12, 2019
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.
Yet another example of the trouble that's been going on in 'Motive City' these days.
It's probably best to stay away from them, for now.
- Dean
" Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! "
5:12 pm
March 20, 2022
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Dean said
.
Yet another example of the trouble that's been going on in 'Motive City' these days.It's probably best to stay away from them, for now.
Dean
What else has been going on with them?
5:15 pm
December 20, 2016
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Canuck said
I transferred my TFSA into Motive Financial .... there is a 30 day hold on the funds, ...
How long were the TFSA funds on deposit with Motive?
Can you obtain written confirmation of the "new policy" that explains their rationale?
Has Motive extended lengthy hold policies to other accounts, like Saavy, do you know?
Have you considered calling the management of Canadian Western Bank for clarification?
Stephen
5:59 pm
September 11, 2013
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No idea, but maybe because it's a bit odd that someone would direct transfer whole TFSA and then immediately transfer some out to another TFSA, i.e. why wouldn't you have transferred that amount directly from Tangerine TFSA to your 3rd TFSA in the first place? is maybe what they're thinking and they just want to ensure all is kosher.
6:10 pm
March 20, 2022
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Nehpets said
Can you obtain written confirmation of the "new policy" that explains their rationale?
Has Motive extended lengthy hold policies to other accounts, like Saavy, do you know?
Have you considered calling the management of Canadian Western Bank for clarification?
Stephen
I have not done any of these things.
It's frustrating because, despite some technical issues and delays with setting up accounts, they've all seemed very nice and willing to resolve issues when they arise.
6:12 pm
March 20, 2022
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Bill said
No idea, but maybe because it's a bit odd that someone would direct transfer whole TFSA and then immediately transfer some out to another TFSA, i.e. why wouldn't you have transferred that amount directly from Tangerine TFSA to your 3rd TFSA in the first place? is maybe what they're thinking and they just want to ensure all is kosher.
That isn't it. As far as I understand it, the funds cannot even be moved to a Motive savings account. They will release the hold if you buy a GIC.
As to the "why" question:
- Because it was a lengthy process to set up my account with them, due to delays (they were busy) and due to the fact that they have an archaic system with all kinds of technical issues. And of course, the more time that passes, the more plans tend to change... so plans changed.
- Because I might need some of the funds due to personal circumstances which have arisen. People should be able to make withdrawls from the TFSA in order to deal with emergencies, pay unforseen bills, etc. That's why a 30 day hold period is so excessive.
- Because I might want to invest a portion of the funds in ways that are not offered by Motive Financial, which should be my prerogative.
7:27 pm
October 21, 2013
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i have transferred registered funds many times.
From what the FIs tell me, these transfers usually arrive in the form of cheques or bank drafts, by mail.
It is my understanding that the law allows such drafts or cheques to be held longer than one might expect in certain circumstances.
You are a new customer, and you have requested an unusual transaction. They don't want to be on the hook if you turn out to be up to no good.
It sounds reasonable to me.
I agree that it would be important for all of us to know under what circumstances this policy might apply.
Norman1 is well informed on holds policies and may have something to say about this.
7:33 pm
March 20, 2022
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Loonie said
i have transferred registered funds many times.
From what the FIs tell me, these transfers usually arrive in the form of cheques or bank drafts, by mail.
It is my understanding that the law allows such drafts or cheques to be held longer than one might expect in certain circumstances.
You are a new customer, and you have requested an unusual transaction. They don't want to be on the hook if you turn out to be up to no good.
It sounds reasonable to me.I agree that it would be important for all of us to know under what circumstances this policy might apply.
Norman1 is well informed on holds policies and may have something to say about this.
From what I understood on the phone today, a 30 day hold is their general policy, at least if the TFSA transfer arrives in the form of a bank draft (perhaps it's different if the funds arrive electronically). By "general policy", I mean that it applies to everyone, irrespective of how old your TFSA account is with them. There was no indication from my phone conversation with them that this only applies to special circumstances.
7:45 pm
March 20, 2022
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Loonie said
You are a new customer, and you have requested an unusual transaction. They don't want to be on the hook if you turn out to be up to no good.
It sounds reasonable to me.
Also, I have not requested any kind of transaction. I called them asking why my funds were still on a hold - that's it. My understanding is that I could not even move the funds to a Motive savings account.
My understanding is that even a customer of, let's say 10 years, who had their TFSA transferred in to Motive by bank draft, would not be able to use any of their TFSA funds to pay an unforeseen bill, nor for an emergency, for a period of 30 days. Because that seems to be Motive's unwritten, general policy, if I'm understanding them correctly.
8:06 pm
March 20, 2022
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Bill said
No idea, but maybe because it's a bit odd that someone would direct transfer whole TFSA and then immediately transfer some out to another TFSA, i.e. why wouldn't you have transferred that amount directly from Tangerine TFSA to your 3rd TFSA in the first place? is maybe what they're thinking and they just want to ensure all is kosher.
As per my other post, my understanding is that anyone who has their TFSA transferred in to Motive by bank draft could not even make a withdrawl to a non-registered Motive savings account if they happen to have an unforseen bill to pay, or for any other reason, for a period of 30 calendar days. This seems to be their general policy, not tied to any particular set of transactions.
As far as the transactions go, plans change. I want to put some of the money in the stock market. Previously I avoided the stock market, now I want to give it a try. I also might need to withdraw some of it to a non-registered account.
The Motive TFSA account setup took forever because Motive couldn't keep up with the demand, compounded by the fact that they seem to have archaic systems which require a lot of paper work and manual work.
The more time that it takes for a thing to happen, the greater the chance that you might not want to do the thing that you previously intended to do once it does happen.
In this case, even though it took an inordinate amount of time to setup my Motive TFSA account, I still want to keep my savings at Motive, just not the amount that I had originally intended, because my plans have changed somewhat in terms of how I wish to invest my savings. I think that's pretty reasonable.
8:15 pm
March 20, 2022
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I will say, Motive's customer service representatives are very nice and seem to always want to help. It's just frustrating dealing with their systems .. and I guess their policies .. or at least this policy.
10:09 pm
April 6, 2013
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I don't think the limits to cheque hold times in the Access to Funds Regulations apply to TFSA accounts.
Those limits only apply to deposits made to "a retail deposit account or to a deposit account held by an eligible enterprise."
Bank Act 627.01 (1) defines "retail deposit account" to be "a personal deposit account that is opened with a deposit of less than $150,000 or of less than any greater prescribed amount."
A "personal deposit account" is defined to be "a deposit account in the name of one or more natural persons that is kept by that person or those persons other than for business purposes."
The Motive Financial TFSA is structured as an arrangement between Canadian Western Bank and a TFSA holder. It doesn't look like a "personal deposit account".
10:49 pm
October 21, 2013
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Perhaps there is confusion at Motive about what constitutes a personal deposit account. I'm certainly confused!
Thanks for clarifying that you had not yet attempted to move the money elsewhere.
It doesn't seem to me that such a hold is justified if Norman1's understanding is correct, but I believe such a hold is possible (but not routine) on non-registered. Again, I would defer to Norman1.
It may be that banks are becoming more and more difficult to deal with online, all the while telling us how much easier it's getting.
Maybe related to regulatory changes.
Sort of reminds me of the introduction of so many "labour-saving devices" which often have involved even more work in the end.
7:51 am
April 6, 2013
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One can see the difference in the "TFSA Agreement" at Motive legal agreements.
The Motive TFSA is described as a "Plan" and not an account. Deposits or contributions to the "Plan" become "Plan Assets" and not an account balance.
10:59 am
September 24, 2019
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Norman1 said
One can see the difference in the "TFSA Agreement" at Motive legal agreements.The Motive TFSA is described as a "Plan" and not an account. Deposits or contributions to the "Plan" become "Plan Assets" and not an account balance.
Thanks Norman1; very interesting.
11:16 am
September 11, 2013
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I find registered plans, being more unwieldy than regular accounts, are best for long-term plan money. My "things change", might need it to pay bills, etc money is much easier to deploy if it's in non-registered accounts.
11:36 am
November 18, 2017
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Any registered account transaction (and I did note that some folds are saying the 30-day hold applies to all transfers) has to go through considerable governmental response. That's slow, and those executing them want time to let things settle before sending cash away. Long ago, I described how a straightforward transfer of TFSA funds from Tangerine took over 30 days to Peoples, and how Peoples generously back-dated it to the correct tax year, having followed my attempts all along.
I can't understand why a draft, certified cheque or "official letter" would clear more slowly than an electronic transfer. Those are supposed to be as solid as cash.
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