Meridian 3.5% 5 year GIC | Page 3 | Meridian Credit Union | Discussion forum

Top It Up said

HISAhopper said

... I hope the FI would not know when its client dies. The transfer is scheduled pre-dead and automatic. What is in it for them (FI) to take legal action about the transfer? 

What does the "transfer is scheduled pre-dead and automatic" mean?  

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Top It Up said

HISAhopper said

... I hope the FI would not know when its client dies. The transfer is scheduled pre-dead and automatic. What is in it for them (FI) to take legal action about the transfer? 

What does the "transfer is scheduled pre-dead and automatic" mean?  

Sorry If I was not clear about that. I meant that the transfer is scheduled before my death ( If that happens) and will take place automatic after my death so I assume there is nothing fraudulent about the transfer. Hope that clear it up.

Top It Up said

Taking place after death ... doubt that transaction will occur and if it did it would most certainly be reversed.

Certainly as an Executor, I would be reviewing any and all tranasactions with respect to Probate and Estate beneficiaries.  

The case of an Executor who stops or reverses the transaction is non-existent in my book because I will make sure that the transaction is aligned with what is in the will.

Loonie said

So... you want this person to have your money, but only if you're dead and can no longer use it yourself.
In your will, the money will go to this person regardless.
But of course if it goes through the will, there will be probate and there will be fees associated with that and it will take longer.
So, it sounds like your strategy is to try to avoid probate.

There is no way to know for sure if your predated requests for transfers would go through and not be revoked when they find out you were dead at the time unless you ask in writing and get an answer in writing or get legal advice. And there is reason to think it would be revoked.
The requests of the deceased are properly dealt with through their wills or joint ownership, unless it's a TFSA/RSP with named beneficiary. The banks know this and that's the rule they will likely follow. I can't see them allowing the requests of a person now deceased to evade the process that is laid out in law. When you file for probate, you have to enter all the assets of the person at the time of death. I am not a lawyer but i think the bottom line is that a dead person can't do any banking, no matter how far in advance he may have planned it.

My advice, unsolicited, would be to stop worrying about what might happen if you happen to die within that particular window. Once you're gone, you won't care anyway.

Salud!  

Thanks for your input.
I do care whom my hard earned money is going to after my death, it is just me.
Probate is not always required but if the bank wants it, the executor will have to deal with it.

Someone who thinks a dozen or more individual transfer requests x 4 is too much probably isn't going to want to see a lawyer and/or set up an inter vivos trust.

I think you should talk first to your rep at Meridian. Be up front with them. Tell them what you want to accomplish and ask what is the best way to accomplish it.
Then, if necessary, you should talk to a lawyer.
If your intention is to act above board, this is where you will get the help to do it right.
if not, I doubt any of us can help you.

FWIW, I recently had a hand in dealing with an estate that did not require probate. The reason the lawyer felt this was correct was because the deceased had negligible assets of his own, really just a few clothes, quite a few books, etc. Everything else was in joint ownership with wife. I actually tried to argue that we should do probate, which, literally, is a proving of the will, but the lawyer, a man of some 50 years experience and a former bencher, said it would be a waste of money to bother with the process. The key thing in his decision was the lack of individually owned assets at time of death.

Maybe I don't understand how the process works, as the probate is optional, does one have to do the probate at the beginning of the process or can wait till the need arises?

HISAhopper said
Maybe I don't understand how the process works, as the probate is optional, does one have to do the probate at the beginning of the process or can wait till the need arises?  

Probate is only optional in certain circumstances. The executor has to establish access to assets in order to distribute them to beneficiaries. If a financial institution requires probate in order get at those assets, then probate will be required. A land registry office is not going to transfer ownership of a property without valid instruction. Probate also protects all concerned from efforts by others to take hold of the assets.

All authorities are going to want to see a death certificate, which means they will know when the death actually took place. This is why you should ask Meridian if your plan would be acceptable to them. The fact that you seem to be wanting to avoid this does not look good.

You should be able to access a book called The Executor's Handbook through your local public library. Get the most recent edition that you can. It's Canadian, gives particular information for certain provinces, and will give you a good overview of the reasons when you would need probate.

It's true that probate fees in Ontario are basically only 1.5%, but there will be additional costs for the lawyer and the application itself.

Thank you all for the comments and advices, I guess I have 2 options now:
One is to send money to Meridian and risk having the money locked in there until the probate is presented.
Two is to send money to Tangerine where it is safe in a joint account.
Will think about that.

HISAhopper said
I think the odd that I am dead in the next 4 months is a tiny 1% and the odd that Meridian would lock up my money in case of my death is 50% so the odd total to 0.5% I decided to go with Meridian and surprisingly with a joint account.  

You may be interested to know that the money isn't 100% locked up on death without the joint account.

The reason the account is frozen is that the bank can become liable if they release the money and it turns out later there isn't enough left in the estate to pay off all the creditors. Creditors and beneficiaries who end up worst off as a result can sue the bank for the difference.

But, some creditors, like the funeral home, are entitled to be paid in full first under bankruptcy laws before other creditors. So, no creditor can end up worst off if the bank releases money for certain things, like the funeral expenses, for example.

This is from If the account is frozen, how does the executor pay for the funeral? written by Newfoundland lawyer Lynne Butler:

…

As mentioned, the follow-up question to whether an account is frozen is whether an executor must pay estate expenses out of his own pocket. In particular, funeral bills were a concern, as they tend to amount to thousands of dollars. The good news is that if an executor or family member takes the funeral bill to the bank where the deceased held his account, the bank will pay the funeral bill directly from the deceased's money. The money won't be given to the executor or family member; it will be sent directly to the funeral home.

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