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Email this10:33 am
May 11, 2023
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In my other posts I had said that I would contemplate using Dominion Securities full service. And may be online only. With FIs merging, it’s getting messier every day for my individual dealings with Oaken, PT, Accelerate, and Hubert. And I used to, as well, dealt with Outlook and Implicitly. Seven FIs to manage.
AltaRed persistently warns me not to go with a full broker. And I appreciate it as it pushes me to confirm any extra cost, fees, or lower rate (as per the posted Dominion Securities rates). So far as per a broker there are none for a GIC only Account. So they must make it from the GIC issuer? Yup...see below. So what I have not yet asked if there are any RIF or TFSA fees from the broker or for extra RRIF withdrawals. My friend says he has to pay $135 a year for his RRIF Account with Dominion. And he does get a disclosure statement showing how much his agent makes from the issuers.
I hope this makes sense.
You can see that it appears there is an inconsistent commission %. I always under stood that commission on a GIC was .25%. I have also included the differences of interest accrued and difference.
So times are good rate wise. Now thinking back, I don’t think I was impressed with the brokers or iTrade when a 5 year rate was 2%. Today it looks good. When rates go down.....the commissions remain no matter what? And the % will look better by dealing direct?
Easy money for a broker or online brokerage??.
10:41 am
September 11, 2013
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Royal's discount broker is RBC Direct Investing, here are their fees (as well as commissions and rates available):
https://www.rbcdirectinvesting.com/pricing/fees.html
11:03 am
May 11, 2023
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Thanks Bill.
And RBC Wealth Management rates are here.
https://ca.rbcwealthmanagement.com/documents/10180/0/gicrates.pdf
Are they the same as the direct online rates?
Do you see in the fees and commissions what they take from a GIC?
All I see is this.
GICs
▪ Remuneration is included in the quoted price
So I assume quoted price means % rate offered?
11:57 am
October 27, 2013
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Yes. The yields posted at RBC Direct Investing are what you get. The GIC list and yields from RBC Dominion Securities and RBC Direct Investing are the same as I indicated in the other thread. I have no idea about RBC Dominion Securities.
4:32 pm
October 27, 2013
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Pewter said
You can see that it appears there is an inconsistent commission %. I always under stood that commission on a GIC was .25%. I have also included the differences of interest accrued and difference.So times are good rate wise. Now thinking back, I don’t think I was impressed with the brokers or iTrade when a 5 year rate was 2%. Today it looks good. When rates go down.....the commissions remain no matter what? And the % will look better by dealing direct?
Easy money for a broker or online brokerage??.
You cannot compare 'direct to retail' rates from the likes of Peoples Trust to the 'brokerage channel in nominee name' rates posted by Dominion Securities. They are two completely different markets for attracting deposits, i.e. apples vs oranges.
Each FI makes a strategic decision on where it wants to attracts deposits and will offer yields that correspond to the competitors in that market.
A simple example, while not a GIC, is with HISA/ISA savings. EQ Bank pays 2.5% interest on its 'direct to retail' HISA per the chart on this website but pays 4.65% on its EQB1000 ISA through the brokerage channel.
You cannot infer commission rates from the calculations you have done.
P.S. The FV@25bp@ term embedded commission for GICs is indeed easy money for any brokerage, full service and discount brokerage.....if the face value is enough and for multi-year terms.
- Not so much for a 1 year $3500 GIC ($3500@0.25%@1 = $7.50)
- The lottery for a 5 year $80k GIC ($80kX0.25%@5 = $1000) assuming the FI does not have a tiered commission rate for larger amounts and longer terms
5:32 pm
May 11, 2023
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AltaRed. Thanks!!
What I do see though is what GIC has the best value for investing. By comparing the direct FI rate vs DS. The smaller the gap...all the better. No matter what I would still use the GIC chart here and look for the best rate here and see what DS has that is the closest.
5:37 pm
October 27, 2013
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Pewter said
AltaRed. Thanks!!What I do see though is what GIC has the best value for investing. By comparing the direct FI rate vs DS. The smaller the gap...all the better. No matter what I would still use the GIC chart here and look for the best rate here and see what DS has that is the closest.
Fair enough but do not infer that the difference is anything resembling commission.
5:40 pm
May 11, 2023
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Got it. That’s why there was question marks.
3:33 pm
May 11, 2023
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Full line broker just emailed me. Their commission is the same for all .25% and all are .25% so they don’t give some GICs preferential attention.
For some reason they have a $125 RIFF admin fee. And x2 is a deal breaker for me.
3:57 pm
May 11, 2023
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So......
Who has the best GIC selection at a self directed brokerage?
ITrade, QTrade or ?..
Links to rates will be most welcome.
Ie.
https://ca.rbcwealthmanagement.com/documents/10180/0/gicrates.pdf
4:29 pm
October 27, 2013
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The BMO IL list has 30 issuers. Example for 5 years annual pay.
Issuer Cashable Term Interest Rate
FAIRSTONE BANK N/A 5 years 5.080%
BANK OF MONTREAL N/A 5 years 5.070%
BANK OF MONTREAL MORTGAGE CORP N/A 5 years 5.070%
BMO TRUST N/A 5 years 5.070%
HOMEQUITY BANK N/A 5 years 5.070%
SHINHAN BANK CANADA N/A 5 years 5.070%
GENERAL BANK OF CDA N/A 5 years 5.050%
HAVENTREE BANK N/A 5 years 5.050%
CANADIAN TIRE BK N/A 5 years 5.030%
ICICI BANK N/A 5 years 5.020%
CDN WESTERN BK N/A 5 years 5.010%
COAST CAPITAL N/A 5 years 5.000%
MANULIFE BANK CDA N/A 5 years 5.000%
CONCENTRA BANK N/A 5 years 4.960%
EQUITABLE BANK N/A 5 years 4.960%
LAURENTIAN BANK N/A 5 years 4.950%
MCAN MORTGAGE N/A 5 years 4.950%
MONTREAL TST CDA N/A 5 years 4.800%
PRESIDENTS CHOICE BK N/A 5 years 4.800%
HSBC BANK N/A 5 years 4.700%
ROYAL BANK MORTGAGE CORP N/A 5 years 4.700%
ROYAL BANK OF CDA N/A 5 years 4.700%
ROYAL TRUST CORP N/A 5 years 4.700%
NATIONAL BANK N/A 5 years 4.600%
SBI CANADA BANK N/A 5 years 4.300%
VANCITY*** N/A 5 years 4.050%
EFFORT TRUST N/A 5 years 4.000%
PEOPLES TRUST N/A 5 years 4.000%
RFA BK N/A 5 years 3.000%
SUN LIFE FINANCIAL N/A 5 years 2.700%
Scotia iTrade has 27 issuers today with highest 5 year rate at 5.07% (Home Equity Bank) - same as what BMO Investorline has.
I don't think you can get a firm answer to your question. The list of issuers does vary a bit from time to time among the various discount brokerages.
5:58 pm
April 6, 2013
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Pewter said
Full line broker just emailed me. Their commission is the same for all .25% and all are .25% so they don’t give some GICs preferential attention.For some reason they have a $125 RIFF admin fee. And x2 is a deal breaker for me.
Is that $125 RRIF admin fee charged on all their RRIF accounts?
Scotia iTRADE charges $100 per year admin fee for one's RSP, RIF, LIRA, and LIF accounts. But, that $100 per year is waived when those accounts total at least $25,000 or the accounts had 12 or more commissionable trades each year.
6:26 pm
October 27, 2013
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It appears from https://ca.rbcwealthmanagement.com/documents/1266289/1266305/Adminstrative+Account+Service+Fees+-+for+NEW+client+account+opening.pdf/5d17d14d-fdd7-48b6-bec4-4d9b74c5af2c that there is indeed an annual $125 account administration fee for retail client RRIFs. Unbelievable in my opinion but then it has been 100 years since I was with a full service brokerage.
RBC Direct Investing has no such fee if combined accounts have a minimum of $15k ($25 per quarter otherwise).
6:49 pm
May 11, 2023
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Norman1 said
Pewter said
Full line broker just emailed me. Their commission is the same for all .25% and all are .25% so they don’t give some GICs preferential attention.For some reason they have a $125 RIFF admin fee. And x2 is a deal breaker for me.
Is that $125 RRIF admin fee charged on all their RRIF accounts?
Scotia iTRADE charges $100 per year admin fee for one's RSP, RIF, LIRA, and LIF accounts. But, that $100 per year is waived when those accounts total at least $25,000 or the accounts had 12 or more commissionable trades each year.
Yes $125 per year for each wife and I. No balance will waive that fee.
7:02 pm
May 11, 2023
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Thanks everyone. Keep it rolling.
I tried iTrade for TFSA only, no GICs. I did not gain much so I left them and went all GICs from the list of FI’s on Peter’s chart. If I went back...I would not use iTrade.
But this is what iTrade gave me.
The $25000 fee was there to waive fees and I could avoid that by going all TFSA only. The policy came in after I joined. The TFSA only option had no such fee. My non TFSA cash accounts were all cancelled.
We each had an account and we did the successor forms. iTrade set up my account login to allow me to buy and sell for both accounts. My wife’s login was rarely used. Do other self direct brokerages do same?
7:26 pm
October 27, 2013
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FWIW, iTrade, as an order taker only, had nothing to do with your portfolio performance. Performance was your responsibility in terms of the securities/holdings you decided to hold. It would be no different if you had purchased the same securities at any other discount brokerage at the time. Don't blame a passive order taker for your investment decisions.
However, to answer your question, for you to be able to see and trade in your spouse's account(s), she has to give you Trading Authority. It is a simple form she completes and signs and sends in to the discount brokerage for her account(s) if she already has an account. Or in a new account opening, I believe most applications provide a section in the application form for that purpose. To my knowledge, all discount brokerages operate in the same way.
7:46 pm
May 11, 2023
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T
AltaRed said
FWIW, iTrade, as an order taker only, had nothing to do with your portfolio performance. Performance was your responsibility in terms of the securities/holdings you decided to hold. It would be no different if you had purchased the same securities at any other discount brokerage at the time. Don't blame a passive order taker for your investment decisions
Gheese were did that come from? DIY is always on you. Or you can pay for some ones template of favourite picks.
8:09 pm
October 27, 2013
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Pewter said
Gheese were did that come from? DIY is always on you. Or you can pay for some ones template of favourite picks.
Your multiple posts appeared to blame iTrade specifically for your poor? experience. Perhaps that was not the intent? FWIW, I have no particular bias for/against any of the 3 discount brokerages we deal with. Each of them has their own quirks, positive and negative.
8:35 pm
April 6, 2013
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AltaRed said
… Each of them has their own quirks, positive and negative.
I agree with that, especially for fixed income, like GIC and bonds.
Unlike for stocks, there are no central markets for fixed income to which deposit brokers and investment dealers provide access to investors. It is up to each GIC issuer which deposit brokers and investment dealers to offer their GIC's through.
The number of GIC issuers offered is not that important. It is more important to have access to issuers that offer the top rates.
8:38 pm
May 11, 2023
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AltaRed said
Your multiple posts appeared to blame iTrade specifically for your poor? experience. Perhaps that was not the intent? FWIW, I have no particular bias for/against any of the 3 discount brokerages we deal with. Each of them has their own quirks, positive and negative.
No, oh no. No...I tried a small amount x 2. I kept adjusting and got no where. I am just not a good trader.....but like DIY.....so went all GIC. I do have a general dislike for Bank of Nova Scotia that started with a mortgage, and my mortgage lady was on my side and did not support their corporate decisions. It forced me to move mortgage to another bank. At the end BNS offered me almost the same.but I declined as I had completed the transfer out. The conversations with iTrade were usually with people under trained and no common sense. When I left and cancelled my accounts a few years later I found that I could still log into my iTrade accounts. I contacted iTrade they say the ATM like Card was issued by BNS and not iTrade and could not cancel. They are so anal!!!
NO, not blaming them for my poor results but for their incompetent service and policies over the years.
Please write your comments in the forum.