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Making a GIC Joint after purchase
November 8, 2022
6:26 am
Bill
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That's my understanding of, and experience with, CRA.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone here has reported joint interest split with another person on their 2 separate tax returns (i.e. the secondary person reporting part of the interest without a corresponding T5 with their SIN on it) and then not been subsequently ever questioned by CRA. (Amounts have to be significant, I get that CRA's computer and their agents have an ever-changing threshold below which they don't care, not worth their time.)

November 8, 2022
7:16 am
anon52
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For many years I have reported interest income received from savings accounts and GICs held jointly with my spouse where I have been the principal owner, with my spouse as secondary, even though I have contributed only 20% of the principal amounts.

On all the T5 slips, both our names are shown, but only my SIN. We have never been questioned by the CRA. I think that the CRA would probably question the inclusion of a secondary recipient on a singly-owned investment.

My original post was to know if it is possible to delay the conversion of a singly-owned GIC to a jointly-owned GIC in order to maximize CDIC coverage.

November 8, 2022
7:36 am
Loonie
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Right! As I said in #12 above, the question is about CDIC , not CRA.

But, for those who want to talk about CRA...
If OP changes the ownership of the GIC to joint, then the T5 will surely show joint owners; if questioned, OP will be able to demonstrate that these funds came from a joint account (although we have no info on how the money was acquired or by whom).
This is a one-year GIC, so there are no other years to worry about.

I don't see any evidence to support the assertion that CRA looks only to match SIN and total income received.
Bill has said in the past that he and his wife report joint GIC income as if it were single, with the primary owner reporting all of it. Since this has not been questioned, he has concluded that this is what CRA is looking for.
However, as has been pointed out, interest is meant, by law, to be attributed to contributor and CRA is very aware that joint account can mean two contributors. Whether or how they choose to pursue this is another matter. My experience, as I have explained to Bill in the past, is that splitting the reporting between joint owners does not create any issues with CRA. In my case at least, it is the honest way to go as it reflects our respective contributions. For the first year in which we had joint GIC income, I noted that our accountant automatically split the income 50:50 without asking us, so I conclude this is the default norm.

November 8, 2022
7:50 am
mustang
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To Bill's point: That has always been my thinking:
i.e., why rock the boat or look for trouble?
I have followed the same practice, just report the income for the SIN number on the T5, regardless of where the money originally came from
Trying to make it easy for CRA-- which makes it easy for me, if I never get questioned.
Which is my primary goal

November 8, 2022
7:57 am
cgouimet
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Loonie said
I wondered about that too. The reason to bother seems to be to enable maximum insurance through CDIC for longest possible time through judicious use of joint and single investments.  

You just have to make sure you remember to change it to joint before dying. If the GIC matures before you die then no harm in having that GIC held either way ... sf-smilesf-smilesf-smile

CGO
November 8, 2022
8:39 am
anon52
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Thanks to you all for your comments/opinions/advice.

I phoned Tangerine this morning (only had a 2 minute wait !!!!!!!) and converted the GIC to Joint ownership. At our ages (we are both 80+) I figure that there is more chance that one of us will die in the next year rather than there is of Tangerine going belly-up. So we won't worry about CDIC limits.

November 8, 2022
9:36 am
RetirEd
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Making a GIC joint is a lot easier if you have it printed on very thin paper, like the wrappers on tampons.
RetirEd
(GROAN! Sorry, I resisted this yesterday but it came back to haunt me...)

RetirEd

November 8, 2022
9:36 am
Bill
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Loonie, you say you have always split interest income reporting from joint GICs, do you know if the related T5s show one or both SINs (I'm assuming when you buy a GIC jointly there's not necessarily a "primary" and "secondary" designation for each owner, or is there?)? Do some T5s show more than one SIN?

Also, you say I previously have said my wife and I report joint GIC income on the primary person's return. I don't recall saying that, can you refresh my memory by indicating where? (I recall saying this about joint bank accounts but not about GICs.)

And as I indicated relatively small amounts (e.g. under $10K per T5) would likely not trigger CRA's allocation follow-up process because moving small amounts of interest income from one spouse to another would likely yield little if any tax difference, i.e. spouses each with their own income to invest are often in the same or pretty much the same tax bracket, CRA doesn't bother with their chosen allocation because the tax difference is negligible, if any. (CRA does follow up on small amounts in the case where someone's T5 shows, say, $500 interest income and the person only reports $200, i.e. obvious error, that's a very different and clear situation that's obvious and thus CRA's computer will issue a reassessment there.)

November 8, 2022
10:25 am
Loonie
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T5s for joint income show SIN for primary only plus both names.

It may be that Bill was only referring to joint savings accounts in terms of how the income was reported, but it doesn't make any difference as the T5s do not distinguish between savings and GICs.

I don't think we should assume that a "small" GIC T5 amount under 10K would not be an issue. To get over $3k annually from a GIC in recent years requires an investment over CDIC limits. For the GIC investor, however, the cumulative total of GIC and savings income from several sources can be substantial.

It may be that CRA only gets interested if there is a significant income discrepancy between joint holders, but we don't know that. While they may not have the SIN of the secondary handy, they will know how much the primary is claiming.
Not all joint accounts are held by couples anyway. Often it's parent and child, who may have significant income disparities - and the source of funds is typically the parent only.

November 8, 2022
1:31 pm
Bill
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Thank you for your correction of what I previously said.

November 9, 2022
5:55 pm
Denise
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I would say it can be done as long as no interest has been paid out and your spouse is a customer there as well. The question is, will Tangerine do it? I am not a Tangerine customer.

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