Ganaraska Credit Union - 4% for 5 Years | Page 2 | GIC discussions | Discussion forum

Jon said
Can confirm you will need to visit personally to set up their account, you cannnt email your ID over to finish the process.  

Hi Jon, yes they confirmed for me in email that you need to visit in person.

Loonie said
Thanks for the additional information. Sounds promising.

I'm wondering about the "cashability" provision. Normally, with other CUs, this involves some kind of penalty, but it can vary.
I'm also not 100% clear if it applies to non-registered funds; probably yes, but it doesn't say precisely.

I just noticed that the online membership application form wants to know the total value of all your assets and liabilities. I have never been asked that before when signing up at any bank or CU. I think it's none of their business. In fact, I don't think I've ever been asked those questions, even for mortgage or credit card.  

Loonie, if it's required for the application, it's likely for cross-selling and increasing "share of wallet". All banks do this in a "soft" way, though gicjunkie is a bit mistaken as assets don't report on a credit report, the one exception possibly being if one had a specific asset securing a loan and that'd be it. Even then, that's extremely unlikely. Most banks ask you this information in the interview. It's just more patently obvious when you're filling in an online form. You could always lie about the asset information (liabilities not so much as it affects your creditworthiness and ability to pay) as you rightly point out, it is optional

Cheers,
Doug

Loonie said
i must say, I am disappointed about the monthly fee, assuming they actually charge it. Over five years, that amounts to almost $250 (plus tax?).
gicjunkie - can you tell us if you have been charged this fee? Do they require a savings account to take it out of?  

The poster called it a "fee" but it sounds like the member equity share requirement is 10 x $5.00 shares or 5 x $10.00 shares, because it's refunded when you leave.

Let's be careful, please, folks, in not calling CU membership share requirements as "fees," unless it's specifically stated. DUCA used to charge a $5.00 membership fee annually but they don't anymore. Membership "fees" are exceedingly rare.

No monthly fee as I can see. 🙂

Cheers,
Doug

gicjunkie said
FYI : There is a one time, refundable, $50.00 per person member fee, kept in a personal, visible account (called "member share") in your online profile.  

The only credit union in Ontario that is discussed here that have an actual members due is Luminous credit union, which I think also allow online application.

I am glad to see that folks feel a bit uncomfortable with providing unnecessary financial information. It's very responsible to protect your financial information.

It is pretty obvious, asset information is required on mortgage/loan applications because they are evaluating their loan risk.

If you are only dealing with GIC's, it is clearly NOT REQUIRED for them to NEED that asset information and we should not feel discomfort in mentioning privacy concerns in not providing asset information.

They perhaps put this process in place since it makes it much easier to prescreen future loan/mortgage applications for their new customers.

Loonie said
Some credit unions DO charge a monthly or annual fee in addition to the refundable share - just like banks. Luminus does charge an annual fee - approx $7, which is sufficient incentive for me to dump them. Ganaraska does list the monthly fee as a fee on one of its two online fee schedules (which differ from each other).

I think you may be right, Doug, about the reason they want to know your assets - for marketing purposes. Lying about it would not achieve anything though, at least for me. There would be no advantage in either inflating or deflating it, for me; it's the idea that I would have to tell them anything that bugs me. None of their business!

If I do join, I will make every effort not to answer this, and will certainly want to hear a good reason as to why they need to know when other CUs don't (Meridian, Hubert, for example). I will fill out the zero liabilities, and that's the most they could possibly have a good reason to need to know. I will write in "confidential" or "don't know". Who, after all, can say precisely the value of all their assets? Real estate, jewelry and art markets are always uncertain. Another possible answer is "greater than X" or "less than Y". How about "enough"? Once they tell me why they need to know (which they don't), I can frame an answer that fits.  

I agree that it's none of their business. At least in-branch, you have the option to decline to answer the question (unless it's to qualify for a lending product typically). Has anyone tried skipping those questions or entering non-numerical values (i.e., "prefer not to say" could work well and be diplomatic)? 🙂

Interestingly, I noticed that Entegra Credit Union, Implicity's parent, and some Ontario credit unions adding the same "assets and liabilities" question to their "new member account opening form." So, it's possible that it's a MemberDirect option now that credit unions have the option of simply "flipping a switch" to enable those questions. In short, it's probably more commonplace and here to stay, sadly. 🙁

Edit: Oh, they do have a monthly membership fee of $3.95 (that would be inclusive of taxes; banks don't charge separate tax amounts except on things like safe deposit boxes). Sneaky buggers! That's probably not a "deal breaker," at least while their GIC rates are competitive enough but still "irksome" and likely be a major consideration whether to renew if the GIC rates at renewal time are much less competitive, right?

Cheers,
Doug

Loonie said
Yes. It's also annoying during the term because it means you have to open a savings or chequing account, whether you need one or not, so that they can take the money out of it. And that means you have to meet whatever minimum requirements that may entail and lose interest on that money and make sure you don't get stung with yet another fee for maintenance - a lot of nuisance work. If you can afford to compound the interest (which, at 4%, is possibly attractive), then you don't need that.

Ah, yes, hadn't thought of that. Though, they likely offer a free account for seniors (most do) or one that would be "pay as you go" with no minimum balance but no (or only one) free debit transaction(s) per month. The monthly membership fee would, most likely, be treated as a "non-chargeable debit transaction," and thus incur no extra transaction fee. Moreover, you'd need to apply a small manual CR transaction to your account once a year to prevent it from going dormant and not be charged for the transaction! Still, it's annoying and unnecessary, I grant you that. 🙂

I'd like to know more about why they are asking these nosy questions. Unless there is some regulatory requirement for it, then I think that, at least with credit unions, members should create a stink. problem is that it only affects new members or wannabe members.

Members could make a stink but, like you mentioned, existing members are concerned more with product and service changes that affect them, not new members. As far as the regulatory rules, I can speak to that a bit. Other than maybe Quebec's strict provincial regulator, the AMF, most, if not all, provincial credit union regulators do not regulate customer-related issues or issues from the standpoint of consumer protection. That's another "bone of contention" I have is that, perhaps counter-intuitively to the cooperative model of CUs, CUs can "cherry pick" the best customers and refuse to open accounts to anyone for any reason with no recourse (other than in the case of the AMF, potentially). The only form of recourse would be through the court system, which is costly. They don't even have to give a reason for their refusal. So, that's one advantage, actually, to CUs that reincorporate federally: they'll now be subject to the federal banking consumer protection watchdog, the FCAC. Some CUs are better than others but, in my experience, I've heard reports that, locally, Interior Savings Credit Union is particularly bad for "cherry picking" and such refusals (i.e., people on welfare even though you can probably convince them to sign up for direct deposit of their welfare cheques each month to cover the fees, they still decline them! :(). More broadly, I would suspect North Vancouver's BlueShore Financial Credit Union (formerly North Shore Credit Union) to be similarly bad. 🙁

I actually prefer to open accounts at new-to-me FIs in person, where possible. I don't like online applications as it's harder to keep a record of them. If I can't go in person, I often ask them to email me an application form, and sometimes successful. And now we have another reason.

Most usually send you a PDF of your completed online application or let you take a print of your completed application, which you could "save as PDF" in Google Chrome. Alternatively, you could just download their Privacy and Account Agreements/T&C PDFs in force at the time you opened your accounts from a legal standpoint.

You could probably wear them down pretty fast by attempting to figure out your assets by itemizing everything you own and all your various accounts, out loud, with considerable meandering, wondering how much that painting is worth and talking about how you happened to own it etc., discussing your coin and stamp collections at length, and the extent of your unique collection of Elvis memorabilia of incalculable value! - ending up with "you know, you'd really have to ask my accountant/spouse/business partner/my-son-the-lawyer" etc.

Good idea, for the face-to-face approach or for accounts opened through the Contact Centre! "Okay, let's move on. We can come back to that another day," the rep might say. "Perfect!" or "Finally!" you might think in your head.

(I had a lot of fun writing that! But, seriously, how many people even know how much they're worth, other than the kinds of people who inhabit this forum??? I remember GS Greg once posting that he'd brought his charts in to some investment advisor to see if that person thought he could make any improvements, and the person was quite shocked as he'd rarely if ever seen anyone who actually had the information.)  

I remember that, too. I miss GS Greg. Yes, he annually updated his asset allocation and was quite methodical & detailed in his approach. It sounded like, between that and his income tax preparation, it took at least three months!

Cheers,
Doug

gicjunkie said

You are right that credit card companies are only concerned with income. I could never understand why any personal financial info, other than a cheque, should be given to a bank or credit union when we are actually lending them our money to purchase an investment. No credit information should be necessary.

I also agree with you about the privacy issue. We are not on Facebook, Twitter, etc. for those reasons. Too much personal stuff is "voluntarily" floating around in cyberspace. You never know when it may come back to bite you. If you do not have to provide personal info, don't do it. I have to admit that my wife is much more diligent about this than I am. She won't give an email address to a store she shops at, just on principle. Just what you want, more unwanted promo materials. And you never know who gains access to this info beyond who you gave it to.  

Generally, that's true that credit card companies are concerned only with income. However, they do assess, automatically usually, your outstanding lending balances from your credit report. If your income does not support either your current lending balances or the requested credit limit, they can ask for additional information. Asset information is not reported on credit reports, unless, potentially for asset-secured lending facilities (not mortgage but say secured loans or LOCs). Most don't do this, though, they just disclose this to provincial PPSA (name in B.C.) registries.

That said, this could change as regulators like OSFI increasingly look to other portions of bank and federal CU lending books, like credit cards, which have grown demonstrably in the past 10 years - outsized only by auto loans probably! They may well add additional supporting documentation requirements in the next 5-10 years. 🙁

Cheers,
Doug