Where to move? ON or AB? | General financial discussion | Discussion forum

Why wouldn't you stay in Quebec? In this upside-down economic world, Quebec is the leader of this so-called "new financial world order" (somewhat tonque-in-cheek), as Canada's economic and fiscal leader. 🙂

Aside from Quebec's stricter consumer protection laws that somewhat limit your FI choices (also actually a benefit), if you both have decent paying jobs and with housing affordability lower, generally, in Quebec, I'd be inclined to stay put - especially since your kids are or will be bilingual.

Cheers,
Doug

I live in Toronto, have always lived in Ontario except for some time in the US, a very short stint in BC, and mostly in TO. I can't offer comparisons to AB, except to say that it's really cold out there and the skitters are terrible in summer, based on having travelled there several times! The mountains are lovely, however.
I have friends and relatives who live in AB, and it seems none of them want to stay there indefinitely. They all envision moving to BC for retirement, or have already done so, to avoid the brutal winters. One moved permanently to Arizona some years back. And it's certainly not cheap to live in BC. So, if you're looking for a "forever" home, AB may not be it in the long run.

Here in ON, we are constantly being told the economy is looking up, new job creation is high etc. It is unclear whether these are really good jobs or not, but something is sustaining the high price of housing here. That said, not every decent location in Ontario has expensive housing. London, for example, is a perfectly decent place to live, with university, hospitals and culture, but more stable moderate housing prices. Ottawa is expensive, but not as bad as Toronto. Your kids could keep up their French there. Kingston is nice. Waterloo is good for tech jobs etc and housing is affordable. Hamilton is on the rise as a desirable place to live. There are many options outside of Toronto.

It would be a shame for your kids to lose their French, which they very likely will do as it's not your language and they will be in English-speaking environments. You could look into whether they could qualify to get into French language schools in your destination. Ontario has them in many places, not sure about AB. Being fluent in French is a huge advantage later in life in a great many fields.

Personally, with two kids to worry about, I would be extremely nervous about moving somewhere where I didn't yet have a job, simply to get out of QC. Perhaps your wife should try looking for a job in another province, as well as yourself, and see who gets one first. You may find that it's not just a matter of living locally but also of having local experience, sorry to say, but no doubt depends on your field. You may not feel more at home in either ON or AB except that we tend to speak English. Perhaps "home" is really always going to be Atlantic Canada for you. i hear there are good jobs in NB these days, and they have been recruiting in the US.

Kids, especially the older one, may rebel at the idea of moving so far from friends. That, combined with possible difficulty finding a job, could be very stressful.

A lot depends on your and wife's field of endeavour. Is there anything entrepreneurial you could do to help you get a start in a new location?

As for Toronto, a house in good repair in a desired location will cost you around a million and up. You can get a good house in a less desirable but generally-safe location for maybe 600-800, possibly a townhouse. A fully deetached house will be more. They are now starting to build larger condos for families because of the shortage of affordable houses, but they too are not cheap. I think that everyone I know who is paying a mortgage is a dual-income professional-or-equivalent family, and i really don't know how they could afford it if they weren't. Basically, one salary is entirely for the mortgage and the other is to live on; and that's how people manage to afford it. It would be very difficult as a single income family, although it can probably be done in certain areas, depending on your income. I can refer you to a good honest realtor here if that's any help.

You might be better to wait until the younger child is out of day care. I understand that is heavily subsidized in QC, and it's not here.

Do you have any network in ON or AB, people who can help you find a job? If you can even get some information-only interviews, that could be a huge help. Similarly, can your wife make any preparatory steps to moving, such as getting licensed to do whatever she does in another province? Upgrading for a new job market?

There are areas of QC which are largely English-speaking. The Eastern Townships, Ste-Anne-de-Bellevue (last time I was there), etc. Can you perhaps find work in such an area, where you would feel more comfortable and could leverage your local experience?

Maybe you can find ways to enjoy living in QC more if leaving isn't a very viable option right now. Take French classes. Watch French TV and listen to French radio. Read French books with a dictionary. See what's available that you could join that would be a mixed environment or where you could learn more and become integrated. As long as you perceive yourself as not belonging, you won't. I know it's not easy, but look on it as an adventure that you could both participate in. I know someone who became fairly fluent in Spanish, living right here in Toronto, because he set his mind to it and developed relationships with Spanish--speaking people. I can have very basic conversations with French-speaking waiters and clerks, and I have never lived in a French-speaking environment and never experienced French immersion. I was interested, so I learned. Perhaps you can find some place to take a French immersion experience for a vacation. I know it's not what you're looking for, but might be a part of the solution.

I wouldn't be motivated by taxes per se. You may be getting a better bang for your buck there.

These are just some random thoughts. Sorry I can't be more specific about the comparison you are looking for.

A lot may depend on work experience so far and preferred careers, but I would suggest not overlooking the southern interior of BC, e.g. the Okanagan Valley. Professional employment is now picking up with a growing tech sector, and the climate is moderate relative to other places in Canada (southern Ontario coming closest perhaps overall). Housing is still relatively affordable, though now starting to rapidly increase due to people fleeing the Lower Mainland of BC, and may now be higher than Montreal. There is also a good UBC campus here albeit not as big and diverse as exists in Vancouver itself.

I've lived in AB for many years, GTA for about 10 years, and also St. John's. I am now retired and live in the Okanagan Valley with no intention to ever leave it.

It might help revealing what kind of careers one is focusing on.

Save2Retire@55,
I think Albeta is your answer consider the requirement you give out.

Top it up, you are completely correct, Spanish and Chinese is going to be more useful.

That being said Save2Retire@55, consider you are in tech industry relating to engineering, have you consider living in Windsor, ON and work in Detroit? Detroit have a rapidly growing tech sector (due to the cheap rent as the city decline which attract start up) that is base on automobile industry. Maybe you can apply your skills for the car manufacturer in making self driving car or electric car. (Although tax filing will be a pain in the butt and you can't use TFSA....)

Bill said
Jon, are residents of Windsor not allowed to have TFSAs?  

No, no, no. I am just saying working in the state and have TFSA account will cause problem with the IRS as they don't see TFSA as a retirement savings trust and you will have to file US tax on it, in which it is a tedious task to do so. However, this is not a problem for RRSP.