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Email this4:06 pm
March 17, 2018
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That means you've handed your money off to Revolut Ltd, a company in the UK. Your money is effectively offshore now and out of reach of Canadian regulators!
Now, the UK doesn't have the offshoring cachet of the Cayman Islands. But, the effect is similar.
Complaints about Revolut then have to made to its UK regulator, the Financial Conduct Authority.
@Norman1 @Doug
Latest update from Transferwise - they disallowed my appeal against being deactivated, and said they are going to keep for themselves all my money in my Borderless account for 60 days for due diligence. I am so angry at them- their overzealous malfunctioning algorithm picked my transaction out for no fault of my own, and now they are refusing to return my money. I filed a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service in UK today, and got an automated email response that responses are delayed due to COVID, and not to expect any actions within a few weeks.
This totally jives with what you said- these outfits have no responsibility to local authority here in Canada.
In the future I will be dealing with XE.com , a large money transfer company based in Newmarket Ontario. That one Doug mentioned, Agility Forex sounded good too, but they don't deal in small amounts. Knightsbridge Forex sounds good too for larger amounts because you can pay with Triangle CC bill pay and make 1%.
7:01 pm
October 21, 2013
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I appreciate your frustration, Briguy, and hope you get a good resolution.
I have just read through this entire thread and I think I am still missing the point as to what function these cards serve for ordinary folks who have credit and debit card alternatives. One person suggested it was for sending money to his father in Mexico?
I haven't travelled outside the country in a number of years, but still might, so I am not up on the best way to do it. I'd just like to understand the point/advantage of these kinds of cards if someone wouldn't mind explaining it to me. Do you need to have an overseas bank account? Are there any such cards where your money is safe? Is there any good domestic use for them, assuming you have CC, debit and money in the bank? thx
7:31 pm
March 17, 2018
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Loonie said
I appreciate your frustration, Briguy, and hope you get a good resolution.I have just read through this entire thread and I think I am still missing the point as to what function these cards serve for ordinary folks who have credit and debit card alternatives. One person suggested it was for sending money to his father in Mexico?
I haven't travelled outside the country in a number of years, but still might, so I am not up on the best way to do it. I'd just like to understand the point/advantage of these kinds of cards if someone wouldn't mind explaining it to me. Do you need to have an overseas bank account? Are there any such cards where your money is safe? Is there any good domestic use for them, assuming you have CC, debit and money in the bank? thx
Hi Loonie:
The main reason most people use Transferwise and Revolut is to transfer money to overseas bank accounts of their own or to someone else's for less money than what the banks would charge. I just sent a family member in USA some money , and I used a combination of Revolut and Transferwise to send the money to their bank account. In the transfer process Revolut and Transferwise convert to USD.
The other reason is that you can have a Revolut prepaid debit card and then use it to withdraw from a foreign ATM while abroad with no FX fees. Revolut is in beta phase in Canada and only available to limited people who are on a waiting list. Transferwise doesn't have a debit card available yet in Canada.
The problem is that these companies are not banks, and have an extremely agressive fraud/money laundering algorithm, so I have had severe issues with these fintechs.
Revolut isn't going to save you money for foreign ATM withdrawal compared to using a Stack prepaid debit card which has zero foreign exchange fees. Transferwise is no cheaper for sending money out internationally, and Revolut is slightly cheaper, compared to using a money transfer company like XE.com , Knightsbridge etc. (All the money transfer companies are cheaper than using your bank for money transfers. ) Revolut and Transferwise just became popular because they have flashy apps you can play with on your phone and are convenient.
If you want to travel in the future, definitely get the Canadian Stack card for withdrawal of money at foreign ATM since there is no foreign exchange fees. I like to have a backup card for ATM withdrawal, that is why I got the Revolut card during this initial beta rollout.
The best way to go shopping when travelling is with a no FX credit card like Brim, Scotiabank Passport Visa etc That way you can earn cashback along with no FX. Home Trust doesn't give you cash back with foreign shopping, just no FX fees.
Try to book the trip with the CC that has the best travel insurances like cancellation, delay etc
9:03 pm
October 21, 2013
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Thanks for the helpful explanation, Briguy. You have filled in a lot of blanks in my knowledge.
Is Stack effectively a debit card, then, i.e. the money you withdraw at an ATM comes directly out of your bank account at your bank, whichever one it may be? Or do you have to transfer funds to Stack prior to that as a kind of uninsured deposit? or perhaps insured through PT?
9:08 am
March 17, 2018
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Loonie said
Thanks for the helpful explanation, Briguy. You have filled in a lot of blanks in my knowledge.Is Stack effectively a debit card, then, i.e. the money you withdraw at an ATM comes directly out of your bank account at your bank, whichever one it may be? Or do you have to transfer funds to Stack prior to that as a kind of uninsured deposit? or perhaps insured through PT?
Hi Loonie:
Stack is a debit card, so first you have to load funds into it, through an Interac e-transfer. The funds in Interac are insured through PT, so unless PT goes bankrupt you're ok. If Stack goes bankrupt you're fine. You would use the funds in Stack to pay bills and to withdraw from foreign ATM. If you are going to a foreign country you don't necessarily want to take a lot of cash with you, so this is a good backup to take out money from ATM while overseas. You wouldn't use it at domestic ATM, since although Stack doesn't charge, most ATM machines will charge a small amount, with a few exceptions like Alterna ATM machines.
1:14 pm
December 12, 2009
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Briguy said
Hi Loonie:
Stack is a debit card, so first you have to load funds into it, through an Interac e-transfer. The funds in Interac are insured through PT, so unless PT goes bankrupt you're ok. If Stack goes bankrupt you're fine. You would use the funds in Stack to pay bills and to withdraw from foreign ATM. If you are going to a foreign country you don't necessarily want to take a lot of cash with you, so this is a good backup to take out money from ATM while overseas. You wouldn't use it at domestic ATM, since although Stack doesn't charge, most ATM machines will charge a small amount, with a few exceptions like Alterna ATM machines.
Hi Briguy and Loonie,
That's not quite right. Stack is actually a digital wallet account, linked to a prepaid MasterCard credit card issued by Peoples Trust Company, in which the relationship is owned and governed by Stack Fintech Inc. Similar to Wealthsimple Cash, Revolut, Koho, etc., the funds are not CDIC insured, other than the initial $100,000 of whatever millions Stack Fintech Inc. has on deposit or otherwise pledged with Peoples Trust Company. Your prepaid card is in your own name, but that doesn't necessarily mean, and, in fact, it isn't, a separate bank account in your own name. Stack Fintech Inc., or a related wholly-owned, non-operating subsidiary, is the registered owner of the funds, though it has allocated those funds among its clients in proportion to what each has loaded onto their card. If Peoples Trust Company went bankrupt, and there was a shortfall to pay depositors and no other bank stepped in to acquire all the deposits, then Stack Fintech Inc. is only insured to $100,000. If Stack Fintech, Inc., goes bankrupt, you are ranked accordingly as a creditor of Stack Fintech, Inc.
Also, when you access your funds at an ATM, you are connecting to the Interac Shared Cash Dispensing system through the Cirrus/Maestro network. So, there really is no insurance provided by Interac, other than while in transit (up to 30 day maximum limit) for Interac e-Transfers.
Aura Loyalty that Shawguy mentioned is actually a digital money wallet from Celero Solutions (owned by the credit union centrals and Concentra Bank), with the technology platform powered by Stack Fintech Inc. and the cards issued by Peoples Trust Company. If I were going to use a prepaid credit card, I'd probably go with Aura Loyalty on that basis because I essentially get the benefits of the Stack technology platform, but since they're just a back-end tech services provider not unlike ATB Financial Inc.'s Grow Technology Inc. is to Motusbank and Meridian Credit Union, I don't have (quite) the same level of risk as I would going with Stack directly. (Well, Celero is still an independent company, but they produce the Temenos core banking systems used by many credit unions, so it's unlikely the credit union centrals would let it sink.) 😉
Cheers,
Doug
2:40 pm
March 17, 2018
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@Doug Aura Card is only available to Sunova credit union members, plus it charges 1.5% foreign transaction fee, same as Koho. I'd rather have Stack card since it charges 0 FTF. Or if I needed a second card ( didn't have Revolut ), I would pick Koho since it's got a lot of digital banking features plus 0.5% cashback. I have faith that Peoples Trust won't go bankrupt, and I also believe that Koho and Stack have sequestered accounts at PT so if they go bankrupt I would get my money returned.
2:51 pm
December 12, 2009
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Briguy said
@Doug Aura Card is only available to Sunova credit union members, plus it charges 1.5% foreign transaction fee, same as Koho. I'd rather have Stack card since it charges 0 FTF. Or if I needed a second card ( didn't have Revolut ), I would pick Koho since it's got a lot of digital banking features plus 0.5% cashback. I have faith that Peoples Trust won't go bankrupt, and I also believe that Koho and Stack have sequestered accounts at PT so if they go bankrupt I would get my money returned. In short, you need not worry about Peoples Trust Company going bankrupt, but rather, Stack Fintech Inc. going bankrupt.
You'll probably get your money back if Stack Fintech Inc. goes bankrupt, yes, but not because of the reason you outlined; it will likely have to do with how highly rank as a creditor of Stack Fintech Inc. (likely just below the senior secured creditors). However, I can assure you, with an extremely high degree of confidence, the funds are held by Stack Fintech Inc. for the benefit of their members. It's not, though, a typical deposit broker relationship wherein they're required to report the names and internal IDs of beneficial fund owners. Rather, the funds are held in the Peoples Trust Company account of Stack Fintech Inc. and they use a series of APIs in order to allow the Stack system to link up with the Peoples Trust Company card management platform. Hope that makes sense.
Basically, when you add funds to your Stack digital wallet, it goes like this:
Briguy --> funds remitted to and recorded by Stack Fintech Inc. --> Stack Fintech Inc. deposits with or otherwise pledges collective client funds with Peoples Company, who holds the funds in Stack Fintech Inc.'s name.
You want to make a withdrawal, so it goes like this:
Briguy --> makes purchase, Peoples Trust Company debits Stack Fintech Inc.'s account (possibly at end of day, to minimize transactions) and immediately updates Stack Fintech Inc.'s platform via the API in real-time --> Briguy sees his now instantaneously reported balance via mobile app of Stack in terms of what Stack now holds for him
As for the differences in fees, yes, but I wouldn't use Stack for the no foreign transaction fees. You are far safer and better off using a Home Trust Preferred Visa or Brim Financial MasterCard, among a few others. (Fido and HSBC Premier have offerings that are pretty good and roughly comparable.)
Cheers,
Doug
3:34 pm
March 17, 2018
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@Doug it's going to incur you a cash advance fee to use a CC at any ATM, regardless of whether you prepay money into your CC account. The best deal at the moment would be a Scotiabank Passport Visa, Home Trust Preferred Visa, or HSBC World Elite, but it still would be better not to use a credit card. Here's a link where they discussed credit cards at foreign ATM at Redflagdeals https://forums.redflagdeals.com/list-canadian-bank-accounts-foreign-atm-withdrawals-2180593/4/
Another prepaid card I didn't mention that I would probably take over Koho but below Stack is the Wealthsimple Cash card, with it's 0.9% savings rate, once they make their debit card available, since that's no FTF as well. Especially if they make available a Tungsten card. I realize there's no CDIC but I wouldn't keep much in the account.
3:40 pm
December 12, 2009
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Briguy said
@Doug it's going to incur you a cash advance fee to use a CC at any ATM, regardless of whether you prepay money into your CC account. The best deal at the moment would be a Scotiabank Passport Visa, Home Trust Preferred Visa, or HSBC World Elite, but it still would be better not to use a credit card.Another prepaid card I didn't mention that I would probably take over Koho but below Stack is the Wealthsimple Cash card, with it's 0.9% savings rate, once they make their debit card available, since that's no FTF as well. Especially if they make available a Tungsten card. I realize there's no CDIC but I wouldn't keep much in the account.
Yes, but that applies to prepaid credit cards as well, if they have a cash advance fee. Nevertheless, I expect I'll incur some fees if travelling internationally. (I haven't left Canada since 1998, and that was to the Dominican Republic my sister and parents when I was in grade 10.) In fact, I haven't traveled anywhere besides Calgary or Edson five years ago (or so) and Vancouver (12 years ago).
As far as metallic debit cards go, I can't say anything more, as per a commitment to keep confidential any contents of the survey, but I can confirm a major North American financial institution which operates in Canada, with which I deal, is contemplating offering a metallic debit card as part of a new product integration strategy.
Cheers,
Doug
5:06 pm
March 17, 2018
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@Doug , I just read that Stack was bought out by another fintech company called Credit Sesame.
11:19 pm
October 21, 2013
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Maybe I'm getting too old to learn new tricks, but doesn't it make you a bit nervous dealing with these companies that are not banks, when it comes to your money?
Some of the names sound so flaky, although I know the name doesn't mean much. There's nothing royal about the Royal Bank of Canada. But Sesame? My initial reaction made me wonder if I should be thinking "Open Sesame!", Sesame Street or ordering a falafel!
I recognize this is more of a gut reaction than a rational one, but just wondered if I'm the only one.
1:16 am
January 28, 2015
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Doug said
They can choose to pay the legislated minimum, which for most of them is probably 1-2 weeks. In British Columbia, the maximum number of weeks for long-serving employees, as a minimum requirement, is only eight weeks. It varies by province, though. Also, if they decide to put their Canadian subsidiary into CCAA, that changes things. Yes, the employees will rank high on the list of creditors (after the Receiver General for Canada, I believe, and possibly ahead of other secured creditors); however, if all assets of the company are in the UK and the UK company has not provided any guarantees, there may be no money to pay debts. Client funds should be frozen at either the time of filing or the initial order time, but this is what I'm getting at with Stack, Koho, Revolut, Aura, Mogo, etc., if the funds aren't formally segregated on the balance sheet, clients may become senior unsecured creditors of the company, I'm not certain.
Cheers,
Doug
In Ontario there's 2 payments you must be given 8 weeks notification if you are losing your job or they have to pay you 8 weeks pay , and then there is severance
min 1 week for every year of service after 5 years of service . They can lay you off ,however if they don't recall you within 9 months (temporary layoff) they owe you the money . So a person with 10 years with a company would be given 18 weeks pay plus vacation pay as a min and they can still sue which usually goes in the poor little workers favor . The older you are closer to retirement usually the more you get . I have lost my job twice and received once with 20 years and once with 10 years without suing I was given over 100,000 and 60,000. To me it was like wining the lottery.
3:42 am
March 17, 2018
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Loonie said
Maybe I'm getting too old to learn new tricks, but doesn't it make you a bit nervous dealing with these companies that are not banks, when it comes to your money?Some of the names sound so flaky, although I know the name doesn't mean much. There's nothing royal about the Royal Bank of Canada. But Sesame? My initial reaction made me wonder if I should be thinking "Open Sesame!", Sesame Street or ordering a falafel!
I recognize this is more of a gut reaction than a rational one, but just wondered if I'm the only one.
I agree Loonie, these fintechs are more risky since they are not regulated by banking authorities. Koho and Stack at least promise that Peoples Trust will refund your money if they go bankrupt. Plus since their cards are prepaid CREDIT CARDS, not debit cards, your card is protected by Visa or Mastercard zero liability policy in case it gets stolen. I feel less secure about the foreign cards such as Revolut or foreign multicurrency accounts such as Transferwise, since they seem trigger happy to freeze or deactivate your account and hold on to your money. Even Stack has been known to deactivate your account if you use it for low profit activities like bill pay or ATM withdrawal too often, but at least they return your money right away.
1:01 pm
March 17, 2018
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Doug said
As far as metallic debit cards go, I can't say anything more, as per a commitment to keep confidential any contents of the survey, but I can confirm a major North American financial institution which operates in Canada, with which I deal, is contemplating offering a metallic debit card as part of a new product integration strategy.
Cheers,
Doug
PC Financial Bank ?? LOL
1:12 pm
October 21, 2013
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What is a "metallic" card, and why would one need one?
I am envisioning even weightier wallets!
1:35 pm
April 6, 2013
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Loonie said
What is a "metallic" card, and why would one need one?
I am envisioning even weightier wallets!
The metallic cards are a recent card marketing gimmick.
I guess gold-, platinum-, or black-coloured plastic cards have lost their cachet. Some issuers are issuing cards made of metal instead of plastic.
The Apple Card is titanium-aluminum alloy. The future Wealthsimple Cash card is supposed to be tungsten.
1:58 pm
March 17, 2018
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Norman1 said
Loonie said
What is a "metallic" card, and why would one need one?
I am envisioning even weightier wallets!The metallic cards are a recent card marketing gimmick.
I guess gold-, platinum-, or black-coloured plastic cards have lost their cachet. Some issuers are issuing cards made of metal instead of plastic.
The Apple Card is titanium-aluminum alloy. The future Wealthsimple Cash card is supposed to be tungsten.
An Amex Black titanium card in his suit pocket helped save a Calgary tycoon's life when he was shot at.
https://nationalpost.com/news/elite-credit-card-made-of-titanium-helped-stop-hit-mans-bullet-in-calgary-tycoons-shooting
The only downside is that it's hard to destroy when the card expires, so most people mail it back to the CC company to destroy it. Plus it can set off airport metal detectors and is heavy.
The best looking card on the planet ( in my opinion ) is the clear plastic card from German bank N26.
https://n26.com/en-eu/mastercard
2:41 pm
October 21, 2013
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Good grief! I hope I never get one of these cards.
That guy in the airport should consider a bullet-proof vest.
Perhaps they are deemed more difffcult to fake?
3:24 pm
April 6, 2013
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I don't think the titanium card helped. Images of the the damaged AMEX card in the video show the card punched right through as if the card was aluminium foil!
It looks more like media trying to sensationalize the card's role in the incident. More likely, the bullet was painfully stopped by one of the victim's ribs or a bulletproof vest he was wearing.
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