Revolut staff claim they’ve been told to quit their jobs or be fired | Page 2 | General financial discussion | Discussion forum

Briguy said

Do you have a comment Doug on who regulates these fintechs? I filed a complaint against Revolut to the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada since they froze my account and wouldn't respond in their app chat, and FCAC said that Revolut is not regulated federally by them so they can't help me. I assume because they have their cards handled by People Trust that they are regulated provincially?

It's kind of a scary thought that some people are depositing their salaries into these fintechs and there is potentially no one regulating them.  

Correct. Peoples Trust Company is regulated by FCAC, but Revolut is not. Revolut owns the relationship with the client; Peoples owns the client's card business, which could continue separately or cease if Revolut switches providers. Since the customer service interaction is generally between Revolut and the client, I don't think you can call Peoples Trust Company regarding your account, other than to report a lost/stolen card.

Revolut is regulated as a money services business by FINTRAC, but unless it relates to Revolut not abiding by FINTRAC identity verification policies or money laundering compliance reporting obligations, they won't help you.

Ontario's general business consumer protection regulator, if Ontario has something similar to Consumer Protection BC, and/or the Better Business Bureau are really your only real points of escalation (other than the courts).

Cheers,
Doug

Briguy said

I looked up the cardholder terms,you are right, seems like Revolut is treating the prepaid Visa card like their own personal piggy bank, with no protections for the cardholder. This is much different than the way Stack or Koho hold their funds in Peoples Trust. If your card gets stolen and used they will not reimburse you for funds lost before you notified them. Also, they say you can complain to FCAC, but when I did that, FCAC claimed they had no jurisdiction over them. I'm going to paste particular sections of the agreement:

Prepaid funds accessible by use of the Card are held by Revolut for your benefit, are not a deposit and are not insured by the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation (CDIC). Peoples Trust Company has no responsibility or liability for any funds in the Revolut Account or accessible by use of a Card. Revolut has sole responsibility and liability, subject to the terms of the Revolut Customer Agreement, for any funds in the Revolut Account and accessible by use of a Card. Please also note: The Card may be deactivated at any time if fraud, related to the Card or use of the Card, is suspected.

If you find an error in any transaction record, you must communicate the error to the merchant with whom you made the transaction.
If you wish to dispute a transaction on your Card, you must notify us in writing of your dispute within thirty (30) days of the end of the month in which the transaction occurred.

We may, in our sole discretion, cancel or suspend any features or services of the Card at any time, with or without cause, with thirty (30) days' notice to you or as otherwise required by Applicable Law.

The merchant or ATM should provide you a paper record of each POS transaction or ATM transaction for which you use the Card.

It is your responsibility to obtain such record and ensure that it is accurate. We are not responsible for providing you with any transaction record or periodic statement.

If you identify an error in any transaction record, you must address the error directly with the merchant or ATM operator.

Some merchants (including, but not limited to, fuel stations, restaurants, hotels, cruise lines, or car rental companies) may pre-authorize the transaction amount for the purchase amount plus up to 20% (or more) above the purchase amount to ensure that there are sufficient funds available to cover any tips or incidental expenses. In such cases, your transaction will be declined if the Balance will not cover the transaction amount plus the additional amount.
A pre-authorization will place a 'hold' on an amount of your available Balance until the merchant sends us the final payment amount of your purchase. Once the final payment amount is received, the pre-authorization amount on hold in excess of that final payment amount will be released. The time it takes for a pre-authorization hold to be removed may vary depending on the type of merchant. A hold is typically removed within seven to ten (7-10) business days for most standard merchants, and within seven to ten (7-10) business days for hotels, cruise lines and car rental agencies. During the hold period, you will not have access to the pre-authorized amount.

The funds provided by you to Load a Balance accessible by use of the Card and the Balance in the Revolut Account accessible by use of the Card are not a deposit, and they do not establish a separate individual deposit account with us or any Canadian financial institution. You will not receive interest on the Balance or on any funds you Load. The funds provided by you to Load a Balance accessible by use of the Card are held by Revolut on your behalf. You agree to hold us harmless from any and all liability whatsoever resulting from the availability or lack of availability of the Balance and the related use of the Card, the holding of funds in and the transfer of funds to or from your Revolut Account and other Revolut services including in connection with the Revolut app or other accounts you may hold with Revolut, all of which are the responsibility of Revolut and for which we have no liability.

Protection against Loss, Theft, or Unauthorized Use: If the Card is lost or stolen or you notice unauthorized use, you will be asked to provide us with your name and the Card number, and to answer an identifying question drawn from your personal information. If you lose the Card, someone might be able to use the Balance available to be accessed by the Card. The Card can be used without a PIN to make purchases online.

We or Revolut will refund any remaining Balance (less the Card cancellation fee, if applicable) after we have processed all transactions completed before we had an opportunity to act on your information

ARBITRATION - THIS CLAUSE IS NOT APPLICABLE TO CONSUMERS IN QUÉBEC - Subject to all other terms of this Agreement, and to the extent not prohibited by Applicable Law, you agree that any claim of any kind against us, Revolut, or Visa arising from or related to this Agreement or the use of the Card (i) shall be resolved by final and binding arbitration before a single arbitrator at Vancouver, British Columbia and (ii) shall not be brought through class or individual litigation proceedings.

If arbitration is not permitted under Applicable Law, the parties (other than consumers residing in Québec) agree that any claim or action brought pursuant to this Agreement will be brought in the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of British Columbia. To the extent not prohibited by Applicable Law, if such a claim is advanced by class proceeding by any other person on your behalf, you will opt out of, or not opt into, such proceedings as circumstances dictate.

Complaints: If you have a complaint or inquiry about any aspect of your Card, first attempt to resolve the complaint or inquiry by visiting the Revolut app Help Center or by calling 1-855-700-4250 (toll-free in Canada). If customer service is unable to resolve the complaint or inquiry to your satisfaction, please call us at 1-855-694-6214 (toll-free in Canada) or submit your complaint or inquiry through the form found at http://www.peoplestrust.com/en.....s/contact/. We will do our best to resolve your complaint or inquiry.

If for some reason we are unable to resolve the issue to your satisfaction, you may refer your inquiry or complaint to the Ombudsman for Banking Services and Investments at 1-888-451-4519 for resolution. If the Cardholder has a concern regarding a potential violation of a consumer protection law, a public commitment, or an industry code of conduct, the concern may be communicated at any time to the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada, either in person, by letter, by telephone, or through its website at:

Financial Consumer Agency of Canada

427 Laurier Avenue West, 6th Floor

Ottawa, ON, K1R 1B9

Telephone: 1-866-461-3222

http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca  

To add to what you've queried about, and what Norman replied in the post that follows, I have to stop you right there, @Briguy. I don't read Koho, Mogo, Stack, and Revolut as having demonstrably different customer agreements. In neither case, whether the funds are held by each of the fintechs with some sort of security pledged with Peoples Trust Company on those funds (in case they default on the settlement obligations to remit to Peoples Trust what you spend) or by Peoples Trust Company, the funds are not CDIC insured nor in your own name. As Norman stated, the card is issued by Peoples Trust Company, but the funds themselves are either held by Peoples Trust Company for the fintech for its customers' benefit or the fintech is holding the funds and has pledged those funds to Peoples in case they can't settle their daily activities with People. If something happens to the fintech in either case, you will be in a situation similar to Pace Securities Corp / Pace Financial Ltd.

Cheers,
Doug

Briguy said
@Norman1 It's to Revolut Ltd UK

These Terms are between you (the "User", "you" or "your") and Revolut Ltd. (" Revolut", "we", "us" or "our"). Revolut is a company incorporated in England and Wales with company number 08804411 and whose registered office is at 9th Floor, 107 Cheapside, London, United Kingdom, EC2V 6DN and head office is at 7 Westferry Circus, The Columbus Building, 4th Floor, London, United Kingdom, E14 4HD. Revolut is the issuer of Electronic Money in your Revolut Electronic Money Account and performs the payment services related to your Revolut Electronic Money Account. Revolut is authorized by the Financial Conduct Authority as an Electronic Money Institution under the Electronic Money Regulations 2011 for the issuing of electronic money. We are included in the FCA's Register of Electronic Money Institution firms (Firm Reference Number 900562) which can be found on the FCA website.

That means you've handed your money off to Revolut Ltd, a company in the UK. Your money is effectively offshore now and out of reach of Canadian regulators!

Now, the UK doesn't have the offshoring cachet of the Cayman Islands. But, the effect is similar.

Complaints about Revolut then have to made to its UK regulator, the Financial Conduct Authority.

Briguy said
@Norman1
I don't think it's worth it to deal with Revolut for more than small transactions. If I ever get a chance to go away, I'm planning to use my Scotiabank Passport Visa for booking trip and for foreign purchases due to its extensive travel insurance and 0 FX ( most people here would use Brim for foreign purchases). For foreign ATM cash withdrawals I'm planning to use a combination of Stack (ATM Limit $500 per withdrawal. $1000 per day. $2000 per month ) , possibly Revolut ( ATM Limit 400.00 per rolling month ) and Monzo ( ATM limit 200 pounds per month ) . It's not good to just rely on one card because they can easily get eaten by ATM or be frozen by the FI.
And of course you have to remember to always choose to pay in the local currency. This means Stack,Revolut or Monzo will convert your money at the Mastercard/Visa exchange rate, instead of the shop or ATM doing it at their own rates, which will usually cost you more.  

Or be pick pocketed as once occurred with me in New Orleans.

Norman1 said

Briguy said
@Norman1
I don't think it's worth it to deal with Revolut for more than small transactions. If I ever get a chance to go away, I'm planning to use my Scotiabank Passport Visa for booking trip and for foreign purchases due to its extensive travel insurance and 0 FX ( most people here would use Brim for foreign purchases).…

I don't see anything in it for me to send my money to the company in the UK. There are credit cards in Canada that have 0% FX surcharge.

Judging from the many stories about Revolut suspending people's accounts for months, with no end in sight, it will be a serious hassle should anything go wrong. No reason given for the suspensions. Just a stupid chat bot as the point of contact.  

@Norman1 Transferwise is just as bad as Revolut- they suspended my account recently too, because I sent 40.00 to my Monzo account in UK. Whatever money there is in the account is frozen until they finish their investigation- which can take up to 10 days, and at the end of that they will either reinstate my account or remove it and return my money.

@Doug , I just want to have a few debit cards for no FX foreign ATM withdrawals, as I've been burnt in the past when I just had Stack, as the ATM ate my Stack card. Transferwise doesn't have a debit card, so I thought it would be useful to use Transferwise to load up a foreign debit card. But, it's become a hassle for me as all these Fintech companies such as Transferwise and Revolut are hypervigilant about money laundering and have defective algorithms for detecting it, and once they think they detect it they either cancel your account or freeze it. Then they have very poor customer service for resolving issues, even worse than Scotiabank LOL

Briguy said
... as the ATM ate my Stack card.   

Can you elaborate on this please? What happened to your Stack Card and where? Asking cause I am planning to get it.

Doug said

Yeah, I agree with you it's frustrating because they are trying to do money laundering compliance by AI and machine learning on a shoestring budget in terms of staff. Well, shoestring in comparison to the large financial institutions, but not to them since their labour costs are still significant relative to the revenue they're bringing in. As far as I can tell, their only revenue is from marketing partnerships with financial institutions, financial data firms, other retailers and merchants, and any premium fees collected by users. They've got R&D, AML compliance, huge marketing costs, sizable labour costs, and rent (which isn't cheap, either, given that they're located in Vancouver and Toronto in trendy office districts. Peter's smart for basing his Mugo Web web business in New Westminster; it's cheaper than the downtown Vancouver and Toronto offices, but it's no Kindersley, Saskatchewan. 😉

I think the prepaid cards are fine, but I wouldn't use them for FX for the reasons articulated above. They're trying to do too much...I would stick with the banks for FX or use Agility FX—they just do foreign exchange and wire transfers. Or Norbert's Gambit, if you can handle the 1-2 week time lag to have all your buy and sell trades settle and your transfers in and out from your banks. In short, as I said before, limit your balances on these things to between $500-2,000 (down from $1000-$2,500 I said before), and use them in Canada only. Use Brim Financial MasterCard or Home Trust Preferred Visa for foreign purchases. HSBC Premier World MasterCard, if you qualify for Premier in one of the countries in which it operates, would be my third choice for foreign purchases.

As for Scotiabank, I actually prefer their customer service (just not fees or products, really) to Tangerine. You can actually reach a Scotiabank rep by phone versus Tangerine. If they made their Ultimate Banking Package consider one's total Scotiabank Group relationship balance (like HSBC and CIBC) of say $5,000-$100,000, and switched it from a fee rebate to a fee waiver, I'd probably close my Tangerine and EQ Bank accounts permanently and go back to Scotia for day-to-day banking.

Cheers,
Doug  

I deal with Scotiabank. My chequing account has no minimum balance requirement. Balance high at start of month. Declines as month progresses. I pay for a small safety deposit box annually. I have a better solution with no minimum balance.

I looked at Scotiabank Ultimate Banking Package. Lots of things I do not need.

No problem. I apologize. I received my senior account when I turned 59 with no monthly fee. It is a grandfathered account that is not offered anymore. I agree that they should include deposits/investments for getting the Ultimate Package. Other big banks offer this kind of service. Hopefully it changes SOON. 2020.

cruzinalong said
No problem. I apologize. I received my senior account when I turned 59 with no monthly fee. It is a grandfathered account that is not offered anymore. I agree that they should include deposits/investments for getting the Ultimate Package. Other big banks offer this kind of service. Hopefully it changes SOON. 2020.  

No problem. No need to apologize, either. I just wanted to clarify. 🙂

Ah, you have the old, grandfathered ScotiaPLUS Account. Scotiabank discontinued selling that a few years ago and replaced it with the Seniors Discount on the Basic Banking Account, which also is a free account but which doesn't have an unlimited number of transactions. My parents use it basically for annual SDB rent collection, and use Tangerine for all their day-to-day banking.

Only CIBC, Canadian Western Bank, HSBC Bank Canada, Laurentian Bank, and possibly National Bank of Canada and the credit unions are the brick & mortar financial institutions that still sell free and unlimited chequing accounts for seniors.

Cheers,
Doug