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Regular mail versus electronic submission for account setup
January 16, 2018
11:49 am
phrank
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Note by admin: this thread was split off from a discussion about Hubert Financial

I agree that Hubert's requirements for snail mail is not a big deal, but I do believe any requirements for mail vs digital these days, is completely unnecessary and usually the sign of an older way of doing things still lurking in the background. This is one of the strengths of EQ bank. No mail for anything yet. Who knows if that will change if they start offering more of the services Hubert does.

Also, on Vancouver Island where I currently live mail is atrociously slow and unreliable. One time I complained to Canada post because I wasn't getting my mail in a timely manner and they openly stated they don't deliver mail until they have enough of it. Lol, whatever that means. I've also had sensitive documents and shipments disappear multiple times in over 8 years of living here. So I have grown to detest using mail over that period.

January 16, 2018
12:31 pm
Loonie
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Your experience with Canada Post is interesting to me, voodoo. An elderly relative who lives in a small town here has been complaining that their mail is not delivered daily as expected. There have been numerous complaints over recent years from various people in the area about mail never arriving. So, perhaps similar to where you are. I didn't know this was so widespread. We thought it was local incompetence, especially as someone was fired a few years back.
We get reliable daily mail here in the big city, but packages are known to disappear.

I actually prefer a mail-in application, because it's easier for me to keep a copy of it, but I expect you're right about the future.

January 16, 2018
8:17 pm
Doug
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Yeah, I know some banks (like EQ Bank and Tangerine) use paperless processes that allow for digital signatures (in Adobe Acrobat Reader, or whatever it's called now...Adobe Reader...Adobe Acrobat Reader!) and it'd be nice if more moved that way but it's a slow process. It'll come - it just depends, sadly, where their priorities are and they're mostly focused on offering things like Touch ID sign-in on your iPhone or Apple Pay, sadly. 🙁

My Canada Post experience has been great. I can't complain. Look how many new addresses they have to serve with the declining mail volumes (and revenues)! That's why I think we need a new funding model to sustain Canada Post, along with ending door-to-door delivery. I like the idea of a small (say $25 per year) parcel tax on every residential single-family home, condo (say $15 per year), mansion/luxury home (say $250 per year) and commercial property (say $500 per year) that goes to Canada Post. In exchange, Canada Post moves to a DC pension plan for new employees.

I live in the Kelowna area and mail to/from Vancouver is within the standard 2 days, to/from Calgary 2-3 days, to/from Edmonton 4 days, to/from Toronto 3 days and to/from all other small or medium-sized towns and cities, 5-8 business days.

Cheers,
Doug

January 16, 2018
8:34 pm
Loonie
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The parcel division of Canada Post is, as I understand it, very profitable, and increasingly so. No need for an extra tax for it.
Getting rid of home delivery is disastrous for many. Think about the elderly and disabled, for instance... My elderly relative, cited above, would have to cross a busy intersection to get to the mailbox. This person has diminished vision and arthritis and relies on the good will of neighbours to collect the mail. No internet access in this home.

January 16, 2018
8:39 pm
Norman1
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voodoo22 said

Also, on Vancouver Island where I currently live mail is atrociously slow and unreliable. One time I complained to Canada post because I wasn't getting my mail in a timely manner and they openly stated they don't deliver mail until they have enough of it. Lol, whatever that means.…

It could mean that they won't send someone out daily to a neighbourhood to deliver the mail if there's only five pieces to deliver. Might be something like 50 pieces of mail for the area or three days, which ever comes first!sf-laugh

January 16, 2018
8:54 pm
Norman1
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Loonie said
Your experience with Canada Post is interesting to me, voodoo. …. There have been numerous complaints over recent years from various people in the area about mail never arriving. So, perhaps similar to where you are. I didn't know this was so widespread. We thought it was local incompetence, especially as someone was fired a few years back.

I've seen incompetence with Canada Post occasionally.

Parents mentioned that they receive mail addressed to a house two streets over with the same house number! That house probably gets some of my parents' mail too. Guess the delivery person gets confused and forgets what street he or she is on!

It could be the mail does arrive, but not where it is addressed to!

January 17, 2018
9:32 am
phrank
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Norman1 said
It could mean that they won't send someone out daily to a neighbourhood to deliver the mail if there's only five pieces to deliver. Might be something like 50 pieces of mail for the area or three days, which ever comes first!sf-laugh  

Haha, I can see that, but daily mail should be daily mail, not when it suits. I live in part of the greater Victoria area, so while it's only a couple hundred thousand people and maybe 20,000 in my municipality, it's not a question of density by Canadian standards. My personal opinion is the problem stems from the fact that jobs here are very much only obtained through inside connections and that only heightens when you're talking government jobs. It's a tight knit group which allows them to do as they please. I can't think of any problems with Canada Post when I lived in other regions of Canada, but those were all much bigger cities.

Loonies comments only strengthen my unfounded opinions that issues like this are more likely to arise in environment where there are fewer people and less people around the workplace who are accountable or more likely to gain or lose from the quality of service.

Anyways, I mailed my application yesterday, hopefully I'll be happy with Hubert!

January 17, 2018
10:24 am
Doug
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Loonie said
The parcel division of Canada Post is, as I understand it, very profitable, and increasingly so. No need for an extra tax for it.
Getting rid of home delivery is disastrous for many. Think about the elderly and disabled, for instance... My elderly relative, cited above, would have to cross a busy intersection to get to the mailbox. This person has diminished vision and arthritis and relies on the good will of neighbours to collect the mail. No internet access in this home.  

Other family members can assist, a POA can have mail forwarded directly to them, etc. The problem is, parcel revenues alone cannot pay for the costs to hand deliver daily mail. We could move to 3-4 day a week delivery or (re-)introduce postal banking (which I'd generally support but that would also accelerate bank and even credit union branch closures as the banks close more rural and suburban branches and outsource their day-to-day transactions to the postal bank, as we've seen in the UK). Postal banking also would simply create a revenue stream to subsidize, effectively, Canada Post's high labour and employee entitlement costs, which the unions would love.

Maybe we add more suburban community mailboxes and relocate them, I'm not sure what the solution is but I also wonder why older people actually need daily mail delivery? We could be adding public Internet terminals in libraries, which are often conveniently located to bus stops requiring no traversing across busy highways where they could check their ePost mailbox and pay bills, for instance, if they didn't want to set up pre-authorized debit. 🙁

Sadly, technology is changing us, often for the worse in terms of labour productivity and the "wage gap" (as illustrated in today's BoC MPR and statement) but telling Canada Post they can't adapt is wrong and creates an unfair urban subsidy of rural Canada.

I'd rather see our tax dollars used to improve people connectivity with a nationalized, point-to-point inter-city bus service like the Saskatchewan Transportation Company that F*ckin' Brad Wall (a nickname I came up with like "Stompin' Tom ") unfairly, surprisingly and swiftly eliminated. 🙁

Cheers,
Doug

January 17, 2018
10:26 am
Doug
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voodoo22 said
Haha, I can see that, but daily mail should be daily mail, not when it suits. I live in part of the greater Victoria area, so while it's only a couple hundred thousand people and maybe 20,000 in my municipality, it's not a question of density by Canadian standards. My personal opinion is the problem stems from the fact that jobs here are very much only obtained through inside connections and that only heightens when you're talking government jobs. It's a tight knit group which allows them to do as they please. I can't think of any problems with Canada Post when I lived in other regions of Canada, but those were all much bigger cities.

Loonies comments only strengthen my unfounded opinions that issues like this are more likely to arise in environment where there are fewer people and less people around the workplace who are accountable or more likely to gain or lose from the quality of service.

Anyways, I mailed my application yesterday, hopefully I'll be happy with Hubert!  

Agree with you completely on the "clubby" nature of government jobs. Look at France. They, apparently, have a much worse situation in terms of the "clubby" "Deep State" and that's exactly what gave rise to the Marianne LePen and her mom, Marine LePen, and current President Macron. 🙂

Cheers,
Doug

January 17, 2018
2:28 pm
Loonie
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Not all elderly people have convenient relatives who are willing to check their mailboxes, nor do they wish to be unnecessarily dependent on them. Maintaining as much independence as possible contributes to their health and well-being.
POA, similarly, may not be convenient. When grandma receives photos of the grandchildren by Canada Post, she ought to be able to see them without waiting for POA to show up on next visit.
Canada Post is quite profitable , at $55million in 2016. Their mandate is to deliver the mail, and they can afford to do so.https://www.canadapost.ca/web/en/pages/aboutus/details.page?article=annual_report
If they weren't making ends meet, we might talk about reducing the number of days per week, but there is no need for that. Perhaps, though, it is already happening informally. It often takes an extra week for this person to receive mail, compared to what it would take for me to receive it. They are already getting reduced service compared to the rest of us.
Post Office banking would be a good idea. Very popular in Britain.
Internet access at libraries is good but will not meet the needs of many seniors. Many many areas have no bus service whatsoever, never mind door to door to the library and back (return trips usually stop on opposite sides of the road). And you shouldn't have to go on a bus ride and pay fares in order to get your mail.
It's unreasonable to complain that urban dwellers are subsidizing rural areas when urban areas (such as mine) are still getting daily home delivery and rural areas are getting occasional delivery to boxes they have trouble accessing. (Among other issues, the bank of boxes near my relative's home is almost unnavigable in winter, flanked by skids of ice. Only the hardy with good vision dare traverse the area. It's unsafe for me personally most of the winter. Complaints do not yield lasting results.) All Canadians are entitled to equal treatment in basic services such as this, education, health care, etc.
Seniors can already pay their bills from home by telephone banking.

January 17, 2018
3:42 pm
Bill
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If you skim the annual reports at Loonie's link you'll notice that Canada Post is all about parcels. Mail (letter) delivery is a diminishing dead-end, it's CP's switch to being a parcel delivery company that has accomplished its successful (so far) transition to the new reality.

January 17, 2018
6:19 pm
Loonie
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Bill said
If you skim the annual reports at Loonie's link you'll notice that Canada Post is all about parcels. Mail (letter) delivery is a diminishing dead-end, it's CP's switch to being a parcel delivery company that has accomplished its successful (so far) transition to the new reality.  

It appears to be a viable business model for Canada Post as a public service. They've found a way to make it work (with the exception of the areas where service is not up to snuff, where they should be spending some of that 55 million/yr). The addition of Post Office banking might make it even better.

January 18, 2018
4:50 pm
Doug
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Postal banking is a good idea in theory but I worry about the accelerated bank branch closures in not only small, rural towns and villages but also mid-sized towns as well. They'll focus their branch real estate expenses on the core, urban markets only and leave Canada Post Bank to provide service to their clients. I estimate we'll lose half of all bank branches within 5 years of a Canada Post Bank being started up; that's about 2500 bank branches. Also, postal banking could just end up subsidizing the problematic lettermail service and the high labour costs. 🙁

At some point, government needs to face the reality of the decline of the regular mail system and allow Canada Post to modernize, focusing on parcels, packages, registered mail and the like. It will be sad for the existing grandmas and grandpas but they won't be around much longer and as people my mom and dad's age get old (i.e., 55-65), they will be used to the move to online banking and bill payments and even social media, they won't miss it. It's sad, yes, but it's got to change. Now, does it mean lettermail has to be eliminated? Maybe not. We could move to a 3-4 week mail delivery in urban areas (daily for packages and parcels) and maybe weekly in the small towns & villages but I do think we have to end door-to-door delivery. If it means Grandma Josephine has to pay for a taxi once a week to get her mail from the post office, then that's the way it will have to be. 🙂

Also, definitely no need for door-to-door service in urban areas whatsoever. Government is effectively subsidizing all these small and even large retailers who do online orders from their bricks-and-mortar storefronts. What would be so wrong with them putting their parcels in a bin and driving them a block or two down the street to the retail postal outlet? sf-cool

Cheers,
Doug

January 18, 2018
5:01 pm
Loonie
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I don't think there's any point in arguing about it any more, but you may feel differently when you are actually old, Doug.

January 18, 2018
8:42 pm
Norman1
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Loonie said
…Canada Post is quite profitable , at $55million in 2016. Their mandate is to deliver the mail, and they can afford to do so.https://www.canadapost.ca/web/en/pages/aboutus/details.page?article=annual_report
If they weren't making ends meet, we might talk about reducing the number of days per week, but there is no need for that.…

Canada Post is not very profitable. The unions like to trumpet that number too.

What they don't trumpet is that fact that the $55 million is what's left of $7.9 billion in revenue. That is about 0.7% profit. Just 1% increase in costs would put them in the red.

As well, there's still that $6.47 billion deficit in their pension fund.

January 18, 2018
9:43 pm
Norman1
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Loonie said
Not all elderly people have convenient relatives who are willing to check their mailboxes, nor do they wish to be unnecessarily dependent on them. Maintaining as much independence as possible contributes to their health and well-being.
POA, similarly, may not be convenient. When grandma receives photos of the grandchildren by Canada Post, she ought to be able to see them without waiting for POA to show up on next visit.

I don't think door-to-door mail delivery is the way to deal with such situations.

Elderly people who are no longer able to walk a block to their community mailbox are also likely to have difficulties mowing their lawn and plowing the snow from their own driveways. If they decide to still live in low-density housing, we don't subsidize what they need to pay for their lawn mowing or their snowplowing. I'm sure they can also pay someone to pick up their mail for them.

An alternative is to move to higher density housing. As far as I know, Canada Post has no plans to stop delivering mail to those banks of mailboxes in the lobby of apartment buildings. Those lobby mailboxes could even be cheaper for Canada Post to service than community mailboxes.

Odds are that will be what I'll end up having to do should I no longer be able to pick up my own mail. Odds are good as only 1/3 of addresses have door-to-door delivery.

January 18, 2018
10:52 pm
Loonie
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Mail is a public service; lawn cutting is not; in some areas, snow shovelling on public sidewalk is a public service. The tendency to say that more and more things ought to be paid for privately is insidious and i find it quite disturbing. It's a slippery slope.

On the other hand, enabling people to remain in their own homes, and in familiar environments if they are able to live there, is well recognized by health professionals as a good way to keep them healthy and out of hospitals and long term care homes, thus saving money from the public purse. Telling them they have to move because we are withdrawing services makes no sense to me or them.

You may feel differently when/if you get to that stage. Have you ever tried to hire someone to pick up your mail? or even to shovel your snow reliably for that matter? We need a good infrastructure which can provide reliable workers to shovel and cut lawns, so that the senior can contact them and pay them and know that it will get done. Presently, it's extremely hit and miss and unreliable.

January 19, 2018
7:41 am
Bill
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The tendency to say that more and more things ought to be paid for by "government" (i.e. my friends and neighbours - someone, anyone but myself ) is insidious and I find it quite disturbing. It's a slippery slope.

Your view of who is responsible for your own welfare will predetermine your stand on many things.

January 19, 2018
7:57 am
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It's called Cradle to Grave. Socialism Rocks ... don't it?

EVEN the boy wonder, who campaigned on a platform of everything for everybody, is now dragging his feet on reinstating door-to-door delivery.

January 19, 2018
9:01 am
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Doug said

... that's exactly what gave rise to the Marianne LePen and her mom, Marine LePen .... 

You might want to take a look at the Le Pen family tree.

CURIOUS, have you ever spent any real time in France and gotten a sense of the real concerns of French society OR are you just living off the bilge spewed daily by the left-wing media ?

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