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Email this12:04 pm
November 4, 2014
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I came upon this article online in the Toronto Star on the Ontario government is looking at possibly reviewing Ontario credit union rules. See it at http://www.thestar.com/busines.....rules.html.
If this does not work Google ontario credit unions and click on page 2 and click on Province to review credit union rules The Star.
It is from October-16-2014 and it maybe of interest to that are residents and customers of Ontario credit unions.
Take care and be informed.
9:52 am
September 11, 2013
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Greg, link to Star did not work for me.
I wouldn't put a dollar into an Ontario credit union anyway. Its citizens continue to embrace and elect governments that are heck-bent on provincial bankruptcy so, not yet but some day, its guarantee to bail out failed credit unions will be meaningless - to my eyes. Plus a province can't print Canadian dollars, the feds can.
10:44 am
February 20, 2013
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Try this link. It seems to work for the moment.
11:29 am
November 4, 2014
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People have to be careful what they read or read into when it it comes to government finances.
Government has many tax powers and borrowing powers except for municipalities in Canada that are really limited to property taxes, parking fees, development fees, water rate charges and maybe some local other taxes.
Jgclghrn, thanks for the link that works and I found the same information through Google which I stated if there was a problem with specific instructions in my above post.
Take care everyone.
11:55 am
February 20, 2013
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Greg Franklin said
Jgclghrn, thanks for the link that works and I found the same information through Google which I stated if there was a problem with specific instructions in my above post.
Take care everyone.
I know, its just easier if the link works.
1:14 pm
September 11, 2013
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Greg says "Government has many tax powers and borrowing powers......."
This is no ordinary situation, Ontario is in a fiscal state never seen before. Its ever- growing provincial debt is now over $22,000 per resident. So for a family of 4 it's $88,000. These numbers will keep rising for the foreseeable future. Not sure what additional taxes could extract from us more than a tiny fraction of that (I'm sure they're open to suggestions). As for "borrowing powers", ask Greece, etc how quickly borrowers disappear when it's clear debt can't be repaid.
Point is, savers, especially those who don't like to gamble with their savings, should not assume there are no future risks with Ontario or other provincial credit unions.
2:11 pm
November 4, 2014
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Ontario's debt to GDP ratio is around 38% to 40% which is not much different than Canada's debt to GDP ratio.
Greece's debt to GDP ratio is around 160% so get informed before telling people that you are making a true comparison.
Bill, it is okay to have a different opinion or point of view but you are way off on this point.
Take care and be informed.
2:34 pm
November 4, 2014
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Just for anyone that wants to know Canada's debt to GDP ratio is 36% so not that different from Ontario's 38% to 40% debt to GDP ratio.
Does this mean that investing in GIC's that are CDIC insured which is Canada's federal deposit insurance is risky as Bill is trying to compare to.
For example, is Oaken Financial's GIC's a risky place for savers? It is not in my opinion and based on the facts at hand. Provincial credit union GIC's are just fine and we put our money where our mouth is.
We have GIC's in both type of financial institutions, federally regulated and provincially regulated.
It is easy to just write something but not looking at the current facts and information as it is. Different points of view are okay and welcomed on this forum.
Take care and be informed.
2:46 pm
November 4, 2014
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The U.S. debt to GDP ratio is 88% so this is much higher than Canada's and Ontario's debt to GDP ratio. Many European countries are in the 120%+ debt to GDP ratio so a little perspective about the debts of a province, country etc.
We are pretty low as a country and as provinces compared to the world at large so this makes us less risky when this very important data is taken into account.
Take care and be informed.
5:47 pm
August 9, 2014
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Greg Franklin said
The U.S. debt to GDP ratio is 88% so this is much higher than Canada's and Ontario's debt to GDP ratio. Many European countries are in the 120%+ debt to GDP ratio so a little perspective about the debts of a province, country etc.
We are pretty low as a country and as provinces compared to the world at large so this makes us less risky when this very important data is taken into account.
Take care and be informed.
Greg, it is not the amount of debt that make the difference, it is the change in debt that make the difference.
Debt of the Ontario government have nearly double in 10 years, and the future is not getting better as industry is moving away from Ontario, which reduce cooperate tax and income tax as more people are now hire in low income job. We may actually see the province facing financial difficulty if we see huge decline in property price, as it damage our financial system and weaken consumer confident which will yield even less revenue.
5:51 pm
September 11, 2013
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"It is easy to just write something but not looking at the current facts and information as it is", says Greg. A careful reader will have noticed that I repeatedly indicated that I was not talking about
"current facts", I'm referring to the road Ontario is headed down. (Not all readers here are old, some are planning for decades down the road.) Here's a short quote from the 2013 Fraser Institute report to help clarify my point: "Ontario in 2011 had a net ratio of debt to GDP of about 37% and it may exceed 40% in the not-so-distant future. Greece in 1984 had a net-debt-to-GDP ratio of 37%, which reached 66% by 1994 and in 2011 sat at 163%. In some respects, Ontario is where Greece was in the 1980s and Greece offers lessons of what not to do with the public finances." In any event, I expressed an opinion (an opinion articulated by others over the last few years) regarding potential risk in Ontario, end of story - I'm not interested in prolonged debate. Heed or ignore it as you wish.
Greg also says "It is okay to have a different opinion or point of view....." ("Different" from Greg?) Fyi, I never consider for a moment whether or not I have someone's "okay" to have an opinion.
8:42 pm
November 4, 2014
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Bill, so you are going to predict the future 25 to 30 years from now. I don't know what your agenda is or what you are trying to prove but we are not Greece.
By your standards and numbers, the U.S., Europe and every other much higher debt to GDP ratio country, state, province around the world is going to go bankrupt and we will be last.
Bill, they are saying that Apple bonds are more safe than U.S. treasuries, Apple almost went bankrupt already once so don't think corporate bonds are safer than other bonds, GIC's etc.
Bill, why don't you tell forum readers where you are putting your money and how much and why plus what are the advantages of your choices.
Bill, you are just reading a report from some place and have no idea the credibility of them and if they are going to stick around to see what happens.
If you think that what you read and think will happen then you will be just devastated financially as that will impact all our lives and you will not be immuned either. Be careful what you wish for.
Take care and do more research because it is not easy as you think for economies and countries, states, provinces to just belly up as you are so sure.
8:56 pm
November 4, 2014
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Jon, Ontario's total debt to GDP doubled from a much lower level at 19%, 20% to 38% to 40%. This is like a savings account rate going from 1.30% to 2.60%. It is not the same as going from 2.60% to 5.20% which is much more difficult to do.
Canada cut their debt to GDP in the 1990's severely but that was already from a high level so that is why Canada's debt to GDP did not double like Ontario's did in the last 10 years. A larger total debt to GDP does matter Jon and this is why Greece got into trouble.
Jon, if we see price declines in real estate then all of Canada will be hit hard not just Ontario. So what should we do, put all our money in gold and silver that I kept hearing in the last 3 or 4 years.
Silver is down 67% and gold is down 37% and if you think stocks, equities, REIT's, dividend paying equities, high yield bonds, real estate etc. are not at high prices with the big run up in the last 5 years then we are in all in trouble.
It is easy to criticize and think doom and gloom like Bill is pointing out but nobody gives another better approach and why.
This is why when someone comes on this forum or anyone else and just tries to push bad news, it is easy to believe them but in the end there is no safe place to hide if Bill gets his wish.
Good luck to all of us because if things get worse, we are all going to lose.
9:12 pm
November 4, 2014
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Bill, if you want something to worry about, worry about Canadians that have a record debt to income ratio of 163.6%. This was already high in the early 1990's at 90%.
Jon, this is the real problem today and not government debt in Canada and provinces. Bill, what don't you talk about that and tell us why that is not a real pressing problem for Canada, provinces and all of us today and trying to predict what might happen 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 years from now.
Take care and if you want to worry about something, worry about the present first and then the future. Good luck to all of us.
9:45 pm
August 9, 2014
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We are the generation that rely most on credit, and it perpetuate in all level of our society - from private to public. What I want to say is, when a massive bail out on private financial sectors kick in, the government can also fall to its knees, just like what happen in Ireland when its housing bubble burst and brings all 4 (if I remember correctly) largest banks in the country to its bankruptcy. (I am sure this will happen on us someday, maybe less severe, as we a highly in debt in private sectors, imply we a very sensitive to change in income or interest rate as small change can cause huge amount of people to default on their loans)
Ontario will be hit hardest as its housing price is one of the most expensive, yet all its industries that are generating massive cooperate and personal income tax (most blue collar labor's income in factories, if inflation adjusted, are at $20-30 per hour range in todays money) are now being outsourced, the decline of housing price will be straw that broke the camel's back. (Same can also argue to Alberta through, as oil price of 3 digit USD is not coming back for a long, long time while they also face very rapid growth in price of property in recent years).
I do want to know, what is the percentage of debt that is mortgage through, this will be useful to determine how risky our bank are.
10:58 am
November 4, 2014
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Jon, if you are so sure this will happen someday then massive personal bankruptcies will happen first which will wipe out all of our savings, investments to a certain degree and don't think that anyone will be spared worse of what happened during the great depression.
Bill and others think that they can avoid this with their investments are sorrily mistaken and will find out that credit, debt binge at the personal and corporate level will be just as or more impacted by the abuse of credit in our society.
By the way, Ontario does not have the most expensive housing, BC is pretty up there. Commodity prices falling from a deep recession or depression will hit hard Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitioba, BC, Quebec and Canada hard but maybe at a later date than Ontario.
Have a great day and good luck to all of you as we are all going to need it.
4:26 pm
August 9, 2014
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Greg Franklin said
Jon, if you are so sure this will happen someday then massive personal bankruptcies will happen first which will wipe out all of our savings, investments to a certain degree and don't think that anyone will be spared worse of what happened during the great depression.
Bill and others think that they can avoid this with their investments are sorrily mistaken and will find out that credit, debt binge at the personal and corporate level will be just as or more impacted by the abuse of credit in our society.
By the way, Ontario does not have the most expensive housing, BC is pretty up there. Commodity prices falling from a deep recession or depression will hit hard Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitioba, BC, Quebec and Canada hard but maybe at a later date than Ontario.
Have a great day and good luck to all of you as we are all going to need it.
Greg, the moment when the Western World start to out source our industry already suggest this day will come. We have cause small amount of high wages job to replace huge amount of low end job which cause extra burden on government due to increase expense with welfare and reduce tax revenue as wealth and income inequality increase (and aging population helps). Make it worst, the developing world are catching up with R&D, finance, marketing etc as they become more educated along with government that really push forward research of both private and public (as an attempt to avoid mid level income trap).
We in the Western World really only left with piles of debt in both public and private sectors and we are all going to hell in a basket, if we don't put our act together again quickly.
Actually, I recall Greenspan say it is a very good time to buy precise metal now......
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