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Email this7:11 am
May 26, 2020
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Yes, we have to wait until the dust settles
with E&Y but I think we should at least discuss the
potential for a class action.
8:42 am
May 19, 2020
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@Carly, Yes most definitely, a class action. In the meantime, we should be looking into which press to contact, creating a timeline of our PSC personal finance events detailing interactions with PSC advisors and such. And also, filing a complaint of our advisor to IIROC.
9:54 am
May 15, 2020
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sevenup said
@Carly, Yes most definitely, a class action. In the meantime, we should be looking into which press to contact, creating a timeline of our PSC personal finance events detailing interactions with PSC advisors and such. And also, filing a complaint of our advisor to IIROC.
Let's hope that a CA isn't going to be in the cards after the results of what is no doubt an extensive investigation currently. Concurrent to that and providing the benefit of the doubt to the financial institution for the interim I don't see a purpose in contacting media either or engaging with a multitude of other avenues until such time as investors who have been directly impacted by this are addressed which will likely occur on an individual basis as I don't think they're dealing with a large group as indicated in the 300 members affected overall by the 'wind up' decision made by the CU.
Media would be looking to confirm the same which at the moment there are no answers to either. So that isn't going to speed things along. Having to contemplate the value of your portfolio specific to these preferred shares at this moment is understandably draining, I deal with it every day too. But it's literally a waiting game and hopefully forensic accounting and other specialized investigative measures will reveal what the overall risks are for the CU to consider against taking some positive corrective measures for the members in the future. I would rather sing the praises of the organization too, right decisions should be publicized as well.
As for these advisors and the status of their current licence, I would imagine they are not in good standing with IIROC and their fate here is likely hinging on these outcomes as well. Although as a free member of society you're free to do as you wish of course! Keep the discussion going as well ...
10:37 am
May 19, 2020
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I have a question, maybe Norman or someone else knows the answer to this?
We just learned, our PFL shares that we purchased (in 2017) by a Pace Credit Union employee who at that time was not an IIROC dealer, ie not an employee of Pace Securities Corp. Is this allowed or legal?
11:03 am
June 2, 2020
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The credit union is definitely trying to pass the buck to someone else, one of their reps told me similar to said above. I went on the iiroc website, and they only charge fines, which does not get my money back, just fines firms/people. so why waste my time and money on that. I'm focusing on the credit union, and they still haven't given answer on the value of the shares. all I got was this PR woman. felt like she was putting on a show, to be frank.
wasn't pace credit union, under the administration of FSRA? Surely they themselves knew the entire situation. As a former Unilever executive, I do not understand why the new CEO made the drastic choice to close shop on them, because every single person's investment accounts went down during the COVID period (albeit the pace products were hit harder) but in due time, there was the opportunity to recoup my original value when the World economy stabilized again. But now, I don't even have the option of waiting this out (like many of us did in 2008, 1987, etc.)
Also, why weren't clients informed of them shutting them down BEFORE the move was made? At least we could have had a say in the matter, given it is Our money, after all. That's why I even started with the Credit Union, one person = one vote. My old man was a farmer, and would always talk highly of a Cooperative vs a Bank.
We just have to wait and see, and maybe PACE CU will do what's right and make people whole, given it's because of them in the first place.
11:18 am
October 27, 2013
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There will (should be) increased value in the junk bonds that remain some day, but the holdings that had to be sold at distressed prices to cover the loan are forever gone. There is no possible way to get even close to $5 value. Maybe half that at best over years to come.
Closing out is likely the best thing to do to remove the knife from the chest and letting the wound heal.
11:31 am
March 30, 2017
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MarkOneil said
The credit union is definitely trying to pass the buck to someone else, one of their reps told me similar to said above. I went on the iiroc website, and they only charge fines, which does not get my money back, just fines firms/people. so why waste my time and money on that. I'm focusing on the credit union, and they still haven't given answer on the value of the shares. all I got was this PR woman. felt like she was putting on a show, to be frank.
wasn't pace credit union, under the administration of FSRA? Surely they themselves knew the entire situation. As a former Unilever executive, I do not understand why the new CEO made the drastic choice to close shop on them, because every single person's investment accounts went down during the COVID period (albeit the pace products were hit harder) but in due time, there was the opportunity to recoup my original value when the World economy stabilized again. But now, I don't even have the option of waiting this out (like many of us did in 2008, 1987, etc.)Also, why weren't clients informed of them shutting them down BEFORE the move was made? At least we could have had a say in the matter, given it is Our money, after all. That's why I even started with the Credit Union, one person = one vote. My old man was a farmer, and would always talk highly of a Cooperative vs a Bank.
We just have to wait and see, and maybe PACE CU will do what's right and make people whole, given it's because of them in the first place.
Anyone that is aware of they are investing in a preferred share is accepting the price risk, unless they were lied about what the preferred shares actually invested in (in this case, looks like its junk bond but you were told investment grade, for example). So PACE CU should not make people whole who are aware of the risk.
Regarding shutting down, its similar to a company filing chapter 11, the investors dont get a say nor vote on it. So I cant say PACE Securities are doing anything wrong either.
I feel sorry for those who lost money on this but the focus should be "are you aware of the price risk, and what the preferred is invested in". If you are clearly deceited by the sales tactic of the Pace advisor, then yes I can see a class action is justified.
11:43 am
June 2, 2020
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Yes I agree AltaRed, I know they held Brookfield bonds and many others, and while the credit rating may have been around BBB, as long as those businesses are still around after this pandemic, those bonds have to mature at par value.
Which every single business is in that position, of surviving this COVID pandemic. Including Pace Credit Union. So that would have helped recoup the losses.
What definitely hurt the value was the forced sale during the first major crash of the COVID pandemic. you're right. but if you read the letter that someone posted, it says they had a plan on how they were going to get things back, on top of the bonds maturing.
Then they decide to make this move. now who knows.
I truly hope they make things right.
11:47 am
May 19, 2020
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When we invested, we were never told this was a high risk investment by the advisor. He always maintained that it was low risk. We understood our buy was (low risk) Pace Credit Union preferred shares. Does anyone have a document or a brochure that says the PFL were high junk bonds? Or is this just a speculation?
2:20 pm
May 19, 2020
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Norman1 said
Yaftica said
…
Pace Securities Corp has issued me a Trading Summary Statement account which lists the Securities and Description of Same. If the client held the shares in question it is clearly indicated on all documentation as Pace Fin Ltd-A 5% NV PFD. Also received a T5008 Statement of Securities Transactions with same indications. Also an Investment Income Summary Statement with same indications, and finally a T5 Statement of Investment Income (Payer's name and address of Pace Securities Corp 50 Burnhamthorpe Rd etc).
Elaine has a T5 slip from PACE FINANCIAL-for dividends.My blood pressure was shooting up so high that I took Off to the bush
The business cards I'm holding from my investment advisor use the Pace Logo followed by Securities Corp.…Thanks for that, Yaftica. From the statements and tax slips, your PACE Financial preferred shares are held in your PACE Securities brokerage account.
Not sure about Elaine's shares though. She is definitely an owner of the same preferred shares as she received a PACE Financial shareholder's letter. However, she reported that PACE Securities couldn't locate a brokerage account for her!
The 5% per annum dividend on $100,000 of those preferred shares is definitely over the $50 exemption for T5 slips. Elaine would have received T5 slips for such dividends. The T5 slips would indicate who was paying her those dividends and perhaps also include some kind of account number.
2:44 pm
May 19, 2020
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Elaine said
My T5 says Pace Financial Limited
I guess when you go to buy a GIC at PACE Credit Union they put you in the Pace Financial room and it all looks like it is a credit union.
I so detest that they bought All Trans.
2:51 pm
May 15, 2020
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sevenup said
When we invested, we were never told this was a high risk investment by the advisor. He always maintained that it was low risk. We understood our buy was (low risk) Pace Credit Union preferred shares. Does anyone have a document or a brochure that says the PFL were high junk bonds? Or is this just a speculation?
Neither was I of course & I suspect others heard the same pitch, I mistakenly believed my funds were being put in CU stock, never would have considered a higher risk scenario especially as a first time investor. I don't think it is speculation as to what they were doing with the funds, those who have commented seem to have a better understanding that this is what PF Ltd was doing with that capital. I'm sure I have something that was given to me which says what they may be doing with the funds in fine print but it is likely along the same lines of the explanation letter which PFL sent out at the end of April to explain the decrease in the share values, which my broker attempted to do previously when I questioned the percentage drop last fall I'm sure you noticed. If not - look at your statements from that period when Pace CU reached out to the entire membership via conference call ...
3:01 pm
May 19, 2020
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We did not have an online access to our pfl or FHH shares, even after repeatedly asking for an online account, the Advisor kept saying that the system was crashing and he wasn't able to create an account for us! BS.
We didn't attend any conference call, was there a letter sent out about this conference call? We had no idea about this rate dropping in the fall. Do you have Documentation about it that you can share with me?
This is just insane. It's time to get a lawyer.
4:00 pm
May 15, 2020
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sevenup said
We did not have an online access to our pfl or FHH shares, even after repeatedly asking for an online account, the Advisor kept saying that the system was crashing and he wasn't able to create an account for us! BS.We didn't attend any conference call, was there a letter sent out about this conference call? We had no idea about this rate dropping in the fall. Do you have Documentation about it that you can share with me?
This is just insane. It's time to get a lawyer.
Perhaps you missed their Robo Call notification. The meeting call was open to all members and the purpose was to discuss the position of the CU currently and how they were handling the regulator / administration fiasco.
How they were returning the board to member control, plans for the future.
I’m sure the transcripts are online. Regardless, at that time when these shares took a drop in value so soon after transfer of my TFSA I looked for answers from my broker. I was told that the balance sheet currently took a hit because of a new Valuation put on the stock by Laurentian and that once the CU emerges from the current dilemma that the portfolio will return to the previous valuation.
I should have bailed immediately but that valuation change took 8k away so I wasn’t looking to lose that either. If I only realized I wasn’t dealing with legitimate stock. My calls in March and April of course went unanswered once things spiralled downward from the subsequent Laurentian manoeuvre. By that time it was too late and the letters went out. $5 to $1.62.
If you were watching your statement in the fall you would have seen the same thing I did online through their account portal. But sure, that’s another thing they should have reached out on as well not ignoring hoping clients wouldn’t notice. My advisor took awhile to get back to me as well I should have listened to my instincts that something was amiss. Hopefully there’s document preservation going on with E&Y too, I suspect there’s something under the carpet over there.
6:04 pm
April 15, 2020
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Yaftica said
Perhaps you missed their Robo Call notification. The meeting call was open to all members and the purpose was to discuss the position of the CU currently and how they were handling the regulator / administration fiasco.
How they were returning the board to member control, plans for the future.I’m sure the transcripts are online. Regardless, at that time when these shares took a drop in value so soon after transfer of my TFSA I looked for answers from my broker. I was told that the balance sheet currently took a hit because of a new Valuation put on the stock by Laurentian and that once the CU emerges from the current dilemma that the portfolio will return to the previous valuation.
I should have bailed immediately but that valuation change took 8k away so I wasn’t looking to lose that either. If I only realized I wasn’t dealing with legitimate stock. My calls in March and April of course went unanswered once things spiralled downward from the subsequent Laurentian manoeuvre. By that time it was too late and the letters went out. $5 to $1.62.
If you were watching your statement in the fall you would have seen the same thing I did online through their account portal. But sure, that’s another thing they should have reached out on as well not ignoring hoping clients wouldn’t notice. My advisor took awhile to get back to me as well I should have listened to my instincts that something was amiss. Hopefully there’s document preservation going on with E&Y too, I suspect there’s something under the carpet over there.
Funny thing was I sold many stocks to buy my SUV in late July. I did not sell at the peak. Things continued to surge after July 30th. 100% stock for my portfolio. Ford and oil went down big time after February. They have recovered a lot since the bottom around March 23rd.
9:12 pm
April 6, 2013
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Elaine said
My T5 says Pace Financial Limited
That strongly suggests that those PACE Financial preferred shares have been registered in your name. In PACE Financial's shareholder book, those shares have your name on them.
In practical terms, it means you'll need to contact the E&Y person who is liquidating PACE Financial to confirm your ownership of the preferred shares and not the E&Y person who is liquidating PACE Securities.
I guess when you go to buy a GIC at PACE Credit Union they put you in the Pace Financial room and it all looks like it is a credit union.
I so detest that they bought All Trans.
That is a common situation in which one will cross invisible corporate boundaries within a branch.
TD Canada Trust branches have a similar situation. Inside a TD Canada Trust branch, there will be staff representing The Toronto-Dominion Bank, staff representing their mutual fund dealer TD Investment Services Inc., and staff representing their investment dealer TD Waterhouse Canada Inc.
Some of the staff will even represent more than one of those three TD companies!
9:22 pm
April 6, 2013
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Yaftica said
…
I should have bailed immediately but that valuation change took 8k away so I wasn’t looking to lose that either. If I only realized I wasn’t dealing with legitimate stock. My calls in March and April of course went unanswered once things spiralled downward from the subsequent Laurentian manoeuvre. By that time it was too late and the letters went out. $5 to $1.62.
…
Are you sure you could have bailed?
Private shares don't trade. So, one can't just sell them and get their current value. I guess the advisor didn't explain that to you.
You can check the terms of the preferred shares in the offering memorandum document to see when and under what conditions one could retract them.
5:49 am
May 19, 2020
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Norman1 said
Elaine said
My T5 says Pace Financial Limited
That strongly suggests that those PACE Financial preferred shares have been registered in your name. In PACE Financial's shareholder book, those shares have your name on them.
In practical terms, it means you'll need to contact the E&Y person who is liquidating PACE Financial to confirm your ownership of the preferred shares and not the E&Y person who is liquidating PACE Securities.
I guess when you go to buy a GIC at PACE Credit Union they put you in the Pace Financial room and it all looks like it is a credit union.
I so detest that they bought All Trans.
That is a common situation in which one will cross invisible corporate boundaries within a branch.
TD Canada Trust branches have a similar situation. Inside a TD Canada Trust branch, there will be staff representing The Toronto-Dominion Bank, staff representing their mutual fund dealer TD Investment Services Inc., and staff representing their investment dealer TD Waterhouse Canada Inc.
Some of the staff will even represent more than one of those three TD companies!
I know that situation happens in banks.I did not expect it at a credit union.Esp.since I had been dealing with a tiny All Trans Branch
11:27 am
May 26, 2020
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I just spoke to my" investment advisor" (notice the quote unquote) He has found another position and I asked him about Iiroc and Laurentian Bank.
He said that it wasn't Iiroc or Laurentian Bank that shut down Pace Securities. It was Pace Credit Union. He said they "pulled the plug" end of March.
Here's the thing,Pace Credit Union IS the reason that I got involved with Pace Securities and unfortunately, Pace Financial Limited and First Hamilton.
11:56 am
May 19, 2020
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I just had a look at the PACE Credit Union website and it says that we are well beyond a bank-we are actually owners.
So if the members are owners-how would a class action lawsuit work?
Would we be suing ourselves?
Is any money safe in PACECredit Union?
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