10:16 am
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone on this forum would have information regarding opening a bank account overseas, and whether this would be recommended for earning higher interest?
I was recently in Australia, and I noticed that the interest rate for a savings account was around 6%, which is substantially higher than here in Canada. I did a search on the internet for interest rates in other countries, and I noticed that in Brazil, it's as high as 10%. I have an account with Ally (2% interest)and ING (1.5%), and prefer to keep my savings in a bank account vs. investing in the stock market, etc.
I'm just thinking it could be advantageous to open an account overseas, but I don't know if it's possible as a Canadian citizen and resident, or if it's naive of me to think it's a good idea. Your opinion and any information you have on this topic would be much appreciated.
Thanks, Nick
1:00 pm
December 12, 2009
Often, they require you to open the account in-person and some countries have residency requirements (i.e., Brazil for sure I've heard). Plus, while the rates may seem attractive, consider that your biggest risk is currency fluctuations and the fact their dollar isn't worth as much as Canada's.
I'd steer clear. The currency risk is simply too great and beyond your control. I would rather see you invest in safe, dividend-paying stocks in Canadian dollars than be at the mercy of the global currency markets. Two years ago, I bought $1000 GBP at 1.85 thinking that was a good rate. The exchange rate has fallen as low as 1.45 and has recovered somewhat to 1.6-1.65 but I'm looking at a several hundred dollar loss if I sell.
Cheers,
Doug
11:42 am
Nick, I actually looked into this myself when Australian savings rates were in the neighborhood of 8-9% a couple of years ago. I went to Ing Direct Australia and started an online application process just to see what kind of information was requested. Sure enough, you need to be an Australian Citizen or immigrant, and you need to supply an Australian street address (no PO Boxes allowed). Also, income tax is deducted from all earnings (how they figure out how much to deduct without knowing how much the applicant earned wasn't clearly explained). There is no way a non-Australian would be able to apply from what I saw. It's too bad too, because the Australian dollar is probably going to be one of the best performers in the coming years as China buys more and more Australian natural resources. BTW, the Canadian and Australian dollars are at virtual parity as of today.
3:15 am
March 25, 2009
Like Doug, I also bought some GBP, about $3600 worth around the rates he did. Back in 2008, I was looking at a 1 year UK GIC paying 6.5% (exchange was 2.05 to 1)... even though it was x2 the ROI I would have got on a 1 year CDN GIC I would have lost a lot more on the exhange in the end going with the UK GIC.
There are offshore, international bank account like so:
http://www.offshore.barclays.c.....8;mpch=sem
http://www.offshore.hsbc.com/1.....k-accounts
But unless you want to deposit in USD, Euro or GBP, then... and it's 2.5-3% as well. The UK and US are cracking down on these types of international "tax havens" so I am not sure if you want to really go into this market or not.
Have a great day
9:49 pm
December 12, 2009
hehe, I feel your pain, mike! 😛
I am keeping my $1000 GBP in an HSBC Bank Canada GBP High Rate Savings Account, currently yielding around 0.30%. It's not great but then I don't have much invested in it and the foreign exchange loss would be larger than not earning any interest. Who knows, maybe I'll have to book a vacation to the UK!! 🙂
Cheers,
Doug
9:38 am
December 12, 2009
With HSBC, you can enquire about its international account opening feature. For a modest service charge (around $200-300, exclusive of any discounts to Premier and Advance qualified customers) levied by its international banking division, HSBC Bank Canada can open you an account in Canada then fill out a bunch of documents to have an account opened with the desired HSBC Group subsidiary.
With regard to other banks, it may be possible to open accounts for non-residents of foreign countries (i.e., a Canadian wanting to open a British bank account) but there would be limitations on the countries available to open bank accounts and since many don't have large Canadian operations, they may limit account openings to only those with significant assets. If you look at that Barclays offshore banking site, they won't even consider you with less than $25,000 GBP (about $40,000 CAD) and even at that lowest level, you're charged monthly service fees, eating up any interest gains).
One of the best ways, I would speculate, to open foreign bank accounts is to book travel to that country and go into a branch there. Do your research before you fly though, to ensure they even allow non-residents to open bank accounts.
Hope that helps,
Doug
10:16 am
Thanks Doug, It helps a little, I am just learning about it now, some countries allow u to open a bank account even just to travel for a couple of months...ex:Australia...the thing is I dont have millions of dollars and cant just fly and spend 2,000 just to make an extra 5,000 per year. I have 150,000 and dont want to risk anything really...I think the Australian money is a pretty safe bet...
brazil has the highest, India is high 2, there has to be a loop hole for non residents...
1:09 pm
February 3, 2009
There is one problem with this AUD/NZD scheme not yet mentioned: the cost of foreign currencies, which is five to seven percent (HSBC rates) for a round trip. (There is 10% non-resident withholding tax on the interest.) It will take two years' interest to recover the price of foreign exchange plus the interest you would have gotten from Canadian banks. (HSBC pays 5.25% in Australia.) By the way, deposit insurance in Australia expires in Oct 2011. Deposit insurance in New Zealand has already expired.
9:34 am
There is one problem with this AUD/NZD scheme not yet mentioned: the cost of foreign currencies, which is five to seven percent (HSBC rates) for a round trip. (There is 10% non-resident withholding tax on the interest.) It will take two years' interest to recover the price of foreign exchange plus the interest you would have gotten from Canadian banks. (HSBC pays 5.25% in Australia.) By the way, deposit insurance in Australia expires in Oct 2011. Deposit insurance in New Zealand has already expired.
I dont think your numbers are correct Jer. lets say we are talking 150,000.
at 5.25= 7875, compare that to the 2.2%= 3300 for a year. now you take the 10%non-resident tax thats 787.50 so your down to 7087.50 then you 5% on the foreign currencies, which is 7500, on 150000 so you would lose 500 dollars the 1st year.
-the 3300 you would have made in canada so-3800,I guess your numbers are correct:cry::frown:
3:03 pm
December 12, 2009
stylintheo said:
Thanks Doug, It helps a little, I am just learning about it now, some countries allow u to open a bank account even just to travel for a couple of months...ex:Australia...the thing is I dont have millions of dollars and cant just fly and spend 2,000 just to make an extra 5,000 per year. I have 150,000 and dont want to risk anything really...I think the Australian money is a pretty safe bet...
brazil has the highest, India is high 2, there has to be a loop hole for non residents...
Yes, that's true but a lot of those said countries (i.e., Australia) don't allow non face-to-face account openings. Canada is one of those countries that allows non-residents to open bank accounts provided they have say, a foreign passport and driver's license or major credit card. A good example are seasonal farm workers or ski resort workers who open bank accounts for six months, have their payroll direct deposited and then close their accounts before they leave.
The other concern I would have is if a bank fails in another country, even if they have deposit insurance that at least partially protects your money and for non-residents, how difficult is it to get your money back? Do you have to fly back to the country and pick up your cheque?
Food for thought.
Cheers,
Doug
5:05 pm
February 3, 2009
If you convert C$150000, you get A$148464 (HSBC rates). With that you earn A$7794 interest (5.25%) and pay A$779 tax (10%), so you finish the first year with A$155479, which buys C$148380. Had you left your C$150000 in Canada, you would have earned C$3300 interest (2.2%) and paid C$495 tax (15%), so you would have finished the first year with C$152805. Therefore, you would lose C$4425 or 2.9% the first year with AUD. Because you haven't broken even, you keep your AUD account and go for another year.
You start the second year with A$155479, and you earn A$8163 interest and pay A$816 tax, so you have A$162825 by the end of the year. That buys C$155391. Had you left your money in Canada, you would have earned C$3362 interest (on C$152805) and paid C$504 tax the second year, bringing your CAD balance to C$155662. Therefore, at the end of the second year, you are still worse off by C$271 or .2%. What do you call an interest-earning scheme in which, even after two years, you are no better off than leaving your money at AcceleRate or Peoples?
12:30 pm
February 3, 2009
First, I have a grammar lesson for you: you are = you're, not your. You should have written "You are missing the point" or "You're missing the point." (If you're angry that someone has corrected your grammar: don't be. You can only be better off having your grammar corrected; you can never be worse off. In fact, this grammar lesson is of more benefit to you than anything about money in this thread.)
Second, the example doesn't go for one year, it goes for two years.
Third, you have to compare your AUD balance with your CAD balance to know if you're better off or worse off. And the only way to do that is to check how much CAD you can buy with your AUD. You're not paying foreign exchange cost every year, but you will have to pay it if you ever spend that money outside of Australia.
Fourth, your time horizon had better be two years, because you don't know what interest rates will be like after that. AUD rates can drop and CAD rates can rise, so AUD may not always have a rate advantage. Also, it is highly likely that you will find a better investment (or have another use for that money) in two years. (MAXA Financial already has a 3.75% 6-year redeemable GIC. Who's to say it won't be 5.25% in two years?)
1:32 pm
First, I have a grammar lesson for you: you are = you're, not your. You should have written " missing the point" or " missing the point." (If angry that someone has corrected your grammar: don't be. You can only be better off having your grammar corrected; you can never be worse off. In fact, this grammar lesson is of more benefit to you than anything about money in this thread.)
lol, this reminds me of Stephen Fry's take on correctness of grammar:
As for staying on topic, I personally wouldn't consider opening a foreign account in another country unless I had some kind of tie to that country (family, job, residency) or I travel to that country often for business or pleasure. I have US bank accounts and the exchange rate has dropped nearly 25 cents on the dollar since I opened them. I don't plan on exchanging any of my US savings to Canadian dollars. I use those accounts when I am in the US and the buying power of that money is tied to the inflation rate of that country and I earn interest on anything I park there while I'm not there. The US interest rates are very similar to ours (worse at the moment) so there really is no interest rate advantage. I know a few people who have holding companies in Ireland because of their corporate tax laws and am following closely the effects of that country's economic issues on the money that those people have moved to Ireland and their banks.
The upside of putting your money in a foreign account is that you have diversified your currency holdings which can be of benefit if one of the currencies starts to devalue. Everyone talks about diversifying your portfolio to minimize risk and I would think that if you're "invested" in a large cash position that it would be smart to try to diversify that as well.
5:06 pm
First, I have a grammar lesson for you: you are = you're, not your. You should have written "You are missing the point" or "You're missing the point." (If you're angry that someone has corrected your grammar: don't be. You can only be better off having your grammar corrected; you can never be worse off. In fact, this grammar lesson is of more benefit to you than anything about money in this thread.) Second, the example doesn't go for one year, it goes for two years. Third, you have to compare your AUD balance with your CAD balance to know if you're better off or worse off. And the only way to do that is to check how much CAD you can buy with your AUD. You're not paying foreign exchange cost every year, but you will have to pay it if you ever spend that money outside of Australia. Fourth, your time horizon had better be two years, because you don't know what interest rates will be like after that. AUD rates can drop and CAD rates can rise, so AUD may not always have a rate advantage. Also, it is highly likely that you will find a better investment (or have another use for that money) in two years. (MAXA Financial already has a 3.75% 6-year redeemable GIC. Who's to say it won't be 5.25% in two years?)
you are Wrong and you know it, who the hell adds in the 5% swing when it is time to sell, you are comparing a 6 year redeemable Gic with a Savings accout. bottom line is you compare what the balance is at the end of every year. you are adding in the 5% swing b4 even opening the account. dont you get that!
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