Opening an account, which ID is needed? | Page 3 | General financial discussion | Discussion forum

Doug said

Okay, fair point. Thanks for clarifying, Norman. The situation you outlined, I would imagine, is not very common, although does every level of employee in a Canadian-based foreign embassy qualify for "diplomatic status" (thinking embassy receptionists and security guards)? If so, then perhaps it's more common than one might think initially. 🙂

Yes, the situation currently does apply also to the diplomat's employees. This is from Section 3 of the current Citizenship Act (1985):

Not applicable to children of foreign diplomats, etc.

(2) Paragraph (1)(a) [that grants citizenship to persons born in Canada after February 14, 1977] does not apply to a person if, at the time of his birth, neither of his parents was a citizen or lawfully admitted to Canada for permanent residence and either of his parents was

(a) a diplomatic or consular officer or other representative or employee in Canada of a foreign government;

(b) an employee in the service of a person referred to in paragraph (a); or

(c) an officer or employee in Canada of a specialized agency of the United Nations or an officer or employee in Canada of any other international organization to whom there are granted, by or under any Act of Parliament, diplomatic privileges and immunities certified by the Minister of Foreign Affairs to be equivalent to those granted to a person or persons referred to in paragraph (a).

I doubt the Passport Office checks our parents' citizenship status on all applications. It's probably more of a "random audit" thing and that's also, in part, I suspect the reason for the guarantor or stat dec in lieu of guarantor.

Can Passport Canada and Service Canada do the stat dec in lieu of guarantor for free? I know Service Canada can certify ID document copies as "true copies" to Passport Canada's acceptability.

The Passport Office would have already checked the parents' citizenship if the parents applied for a passport previously.

The guarantor guarantees the passport applicant resembles that submitted photo and that he or she knows the applicant. I don't think the guarantor guarantees the applicant's citizenship.

Statutory declarations need to be done in front of someone who can administer an oath or declaration. I'm not sure Service Canada or the Passport Office would have such a person available.

Is it possible to un-renounce one's Canadian citizenship or does one have to reapply through naturalization process (thinking Sir Conrad Black, the former Lord of Crossharbour, here)?

Yes, one can resume one's Canadian citizenship. Section 11 of the current Citizenship Act touches on that. Process, forms, and fees for resuming citizenship are at Canada.ca: Resume Canadian citizenship.

Getting citizenship back may not be completely straightforward, not as simple as "pause". I recall there was a bit of a kerfuffle about whether the disgraced former Lord Conrad Black could get his back. I'm not sure how that one came out in the end, but it would matter how you'd spent your time while not a Canadian. Let's say you went off and joined a suspected terrorist group in the interim, for example...

If you think you can get a better deal somewhere else, go for it:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/renounce-canadian-citizenship/eligibility.html

Bill said
If you think you can get a better deal somewhere else, go for it:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadian-citizenship/renounce-canadian-citizenship/eligibility.html  

Bill, I was just speaking purely hypothetically. I wouldn't ever renounce my Canadian citizenship nor would I become a dual citizen, especially not in the U.S. with their taxation of worldwide income. 😉

Some Caribbean countries will sell you citizenship for a relative bargain compared to what Canada and others command. 🙂

Cheers,
Doug

Doug said
…

Also, Norman or Loonie, can you voluntarily become a "stateless person" to make refugee status easier, perhaps? For instance, if one only held Canadian citizenship, I know they can't strip you of it, but could you voluntarily renounce it and effectively become stateless? Such a status might aid in your immigration application in another country, especially if you've renounced your only citizenship while abroad, no?

I don't think the application would be approved if the applicant would become stateless.

Applications to renounce are not automatically approved. I don't think the application to renounce would be approved unless one already has citizenship elsewhere or will have immediately on the approval of the application.

That is suggested by the requirements in subsection 9(1) of the current Citizenship Act, particularly paragraph 9(1)(a):

Renunciation of citizenship

9 (1) Subject to subsection (2.1), a citizen may, on application, renounce his citizenship if he

(a) is a citizen of a country other than Canada or, if his application is accepted, will become a citizen of a country other than Canada;

(b) is not the subject of a declaration by the Governor in Council made pursuant to section 20;

(c) is not a minor;

(d) is not prevented from understanding the significance of renouncing citizenship by reason of the person having a mental disability; and

(e) does not reside in Canada.

I suspect many people become stateless because they can't obtain the documentation to substantiate their citizenship.

Thanks for clarifying that, Norman! 🙂

Norman, you like to be our in-house reference for peculiar clauses in Canadian legislation. 😉

Cheers,
Doug

Bill said
Doug, I don't know about USA residents, so I'll accept it if you say they are double-taxed.

I'm not sure what you mean by payroll taxes - do you mean income taxes deducted at source? Or are you talking about another type of tax, not income tax? In any event, if you live in Canada but work in USA you will have USA income tax deducted from your pay, you will be subject to Canadian income tax on the same income, and you will get a credit on your Canadian taxes (foreign tax credit) for what was deducted for USA taxes, thus no double-taxation. Same with investment income earned outside Canada - residents of Canada will get the FTC for taxes paid/withheld outside Canada. No double taxation for Canadian residents, check out the FTC.  

Yeah, I meant typical employment income. Sorry should've clarified, not like a payroll levy or insurance premium of some sort.

Okay, but that's for Canadian residents, but I think U.S. citizens living and working full time outside the U.S. have to file and pay taxes in both countries. Plus, if you become a non-resident for tax purposes, but remain a Canadian citizen, you don't need to pay Canadian income taxes. Is that correct? That's what I was getting at whereas in the U.S., they don't have such a provision, as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong though. I'm sure I could Google it, but I'll leave it up to our resident forum jurist, Norman1, to look that up. 😉

Cheers,
Doug

Loonie said
US citizens have to file, no matter where they live. This has come to light as it's been a major issue for those Americans who have wanted to renounce their US citizenship in view of recent events. Some of them can't afford to do so as they are not up to date on their US tax returns, which is required for completing the renunciation. Some of them have been here for decades and it would be a nightmare to try toi do those tax returns retroactively.  

Thanks, Loonie. That was my understanding, too. 🙂

Canadians don't, if they're non-residents for tax purposes, though, correct?

Cheers,
Doug

Doug, Cdn citizens who are non-residents may still have to file and pay Cdn income tax on income sourced in Canada, e.g. Cdn dividends, pensions, business income from a Cdn business, employment income from a Cdn employer, and many others. I know some people who have become non-residents but still operate their Canada-based businesses remotely and they have to file and report only that income to CRA.

Becoming a non-resident of Canada (note there are various categories of non-residency) entails cutting essential ties to Canada. There are a lot of factors that go into that determination and it's a case-by-case situation. For example, I know a Canadian who maintains their home in Canada (it's empty except for when they're in Canada or when friends/family use it temporarily) who is a resident of a tax haven, so as far as I know it's not a requirement to dispose of property if you can otherwise meet CRA's conditions to show that you have essentially cut ties to Canada.

In any event, as I said, there's no double taxation for Canadian residents due to the foreign tax credit - some of us see that already, i.e. etfs or mutual funds that earn foreign income may shows foreign tax being paid on the T5 or T3 slips and that's recoverable via the FTC.

As far as having to file USA returns to renounce citizenship (I heard some Hollywood types saying they'd move to Canada if Trump won but they all were lying), as a person who files as required I've zero sympathy for those who haven't met their income tax filing obligations. And if you are a person of such strong principles as to renounce citizenship because you don't agree with the choices made by the other citizens then I'd expect you'd be quite willing to signal your resolve by doing whatever it takes to renounce said citizenship.

Loonie said
Nobody should rely on anecdotal evidence for an issue with such significant ramifications.
Retaining a home in Canada is considered by the government to be a "significant" indicator of Canadian residency.
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/international-non-residents/information-been-moved/determining-your-residency-status.html  

What do they mean by "home," though? If it's not declared as a "principal residence," I would think that you'd have a strong case for having "cut ties."

As for having to give up your credit cards, I don't know that that's the case. Non-residents can hold Canadian bank accounts and credit cards. 🙂

That's the problem with the Canadian tax code - the CRA seems to have too much discretionary authority. It should be cut and dry and, if a CRA telephone agent gives you advice by phone and you record the conversation, that advice should trump the legislation on a case-by-case basis - even if that agent erred. It would force some accountability.

Also, I can't say as I have much good to say about the current National Revenue Minister, who barely speaks any English and has only limited work experience. That being said, the National Revenue Minister is probably the easiest cabinet job that requires the least skill. All of the management is done by the Commissioner and Deputy Commissioner and their underlings and all of the governance is done by the Board of Management, who are all political appointees. The current Board Chair, interestingly, is my former MLA, I believe (or at least was).

Cheers,
Doug