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Email this1:51 pm
December 12, 2009
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Top It Up said
As a fellow Canadian taxpayer, I'm always hoping that the government holds everyone accountable on their tax filings.As for privacy sake - the information on income tax returns is deemed to be Protected when Completed
LOL, relevance? That may well be so but the person, of course, has the choice to use such information if they wish. 😉
Cheers,
Doug
6:12 pm
October 27, 2013
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Doug said
If the bank only needs the SIN for income tax reporting purposes, a card is not required. It can be spoken or he could show a recent T-slip or Notice of Assessment. 🙂
They can only ask for it for income tax reporting purposes, not require it for ID. And, you have a right to refuse to give it up but, not doing so may subject to annual $50 (I think?) penalties from CRA if they wish to impose it.
Cheers,
Doug
That is my understanding. You have to provide your SIN number (not card) to all FI's in which you have an account for purposes of income reporting to CRA for tax purposes. I don't know of any other instance where one must disclose (or even should disclose) one's SIN number, nor do I believe it is printed on any documents except tax slips and CRA documentation. I have never carried my SIN card on my person.
8:37 pm
December 12, 2015
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Doug, my spouse has been a client of the bank in question for over 30 years, and he just wanted to add a US$ account to his profile. CSR threatened that they could not do it without both drivers licence and medicare card. Not just a quick glance, they wanted to enter the numbers! When he showed up in person the CSR eventually agreed to drivers licence plus credit card, but gave him bigtime pouty attitude. So he is thinking of changing banks after this experience. They already have his SI number on file, of course, for 30 years. No, Loonie, health cards here do not show SINs. But either way, why the need to see ID when he is already a customer? When I added a chequing acct with Tang to my savings acct, I showed no ID.
If I can find time I will write to our provincial govt member to ask what the law is here in QC and suggest they do as in Ontario, keep medicare numbers private. Thanks for the info, Loonie.
My pharmacist says the receipts are provided as such without names of medication or DINs to keep patient information confidential, as is suggested by the Order of Pharmacists here. Of course these are receipts for valid medications, not snake oil. 800$ worth of receipts would give about a 100$ deduction, so I am doing this on principal as my time is worth more than the 100$. I will post the outcome when available.
10:16 am
December 12, 2009
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AltaRed said
That is my understanding. You have to provide your SIN number (not card) to all FI's in which you have an account for purposes of income reporting to CRA for tax purposes. I don't know of any other instance where one must disclose (or even should disclose) one's SIN number, nor do I believe it is printed on any documents except tax slips and CRA documentation. I have never carried my SIN card on my person.
It is printed on the most T-slips to which you've disclosed. And, it, technically speaking, is optional to provide to an FI, though they may decline to open the account but that would be "murky," at best, for them and likely invite sanction by FCAC and/or OBSI. If the CRA levies a fine, though, for missing SIN on a tax slip, it definitely goes to the taxpayer, not the FI, as I'm sure you're well versed on the subject. I just meant, if her husband had a T-slip showing his SIN, while not "official" secondary ID, some FIs are more lenient and may accept it in absence of an actual SIN card. Like you, I generally don't carry my SIN card, birth certificate(s) or even my health care card anymore. Although it's not on my provincial ID, I can be easily looked up in the MSP database by my name for the purposes of ambulance billing and patient admittance to hospital. 🙂
Cheers,
Doug
10:21 am
December 12, 2009
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Saver-Mom said
... When he showed up in person the CSR eventually agreed to drivers licence plus credit card, but gave him bigtime pouty attitude. So he is thinking of changing banks after this experience. They already have his SI number on file, of course, for 30 years. No, Loonie, health cards here do not show SINs. But either way, why the need to see ID when he is already a customer? When I added a chequing acct with Tang to my savings acct, I showed no ID.
Hrm, the fact that the CSR gave a "bigtime pouty attitude" at not having health care number as secondary ID for the system shows me he (assuming it was a he) needs an attitude re-adjustment. He is likely anal (I am, too, but not to the extent as to prefer one piece of ID over the other). In fact, I might've been anal in the exact opposite way, by requesting the least sensitive type of ID over a secondary government-issued photo ID as the second piece of ID. I'd often ask for "a driver's license or provincial government photo ID and a credit OR a debit card, with your name on it." If they hadn't signed it, I'd just ask them to sign the back. I was even known to make exceptions for people I had a good "gut feeling" about and take a debit card without a name on it on occasion. Alternatively, I think I probably used "personal reference" more than any other CSR in the valley (5 branches) for account openings. 🙁
The fact that NO ID was in the system suggests they've been told to get updated information on all old, long-time customers (usually caused by a bulk data import when migrating from paper-based recordkeeping systems to computer-based ones, where only limited name and address information was imported electronically). That being said, since those are the customers you know best, those are the ones I tended to make such exceptions for. 🙂
It's been awhile since I worked in banking but it appears that for secondary ID, the number of sources have been actually broadened substantially. They used to identify specific sources/types. Now, they just specify types of documents that used to only be available for non-face-to-face ID and/or supporting documentation, but not ID.
From: "Methods to Identify Individuals and Confirm the Existence of Entities." Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada, http://www.fintrac.gc.ca/guida.....11-eng.asp. Accessed 22 February 2018.
Link to enlarge image: http://www.highinterestsavings.....tities.png
Note that for secondary verification of name and address, which is the purpose of the secondary ID, you can now use government or other documents, apparently, or even the phonebook (i.e., Canada411):
Some of them, like the micro-deposits and cleared cheque, only work for non-face-to-face account openings but the original bank or credit e-Statement would also work well, as would a property tax statement. 🙂
Cheers,
Doug
7:25 pm
April 6, 2013
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Norman1 said
… Birth certificate alone is not really proof of citizenship. There are many situations where Canadian birth does not result in Canadian citizenship.
Doug said
Not true for citizens born in Canada. That is one's only proof of citizenship and, for applying for a Passport, all that is required. 🙂
Being born in Canada does not always result in Canadian citizenship at birth.
One such situation is when a child is born in Canada, the parents have neither Canadian citizenship or Canadian permanent residency, and a parent is a diplomat of a foreign government. Child will have a Canadian birth certificate. But, child will not have Canadian citizenship.
As a result, a Canadian birth certificate is not proof of Canadian citizenship. The Passport Office accepts a Canadian birth certificate as evidence of probable Canadian citizenship. But, the status of the applicant's parents will need to be checked to see if Canadian citizenship was actually obtained at birth.
There is probably a check too to see if the passport applicant has renounced their citizenship.
7:31 pm
April 6, 2013
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Loonie said
Fascinating. I wish I'd known about this when it was still available. Got any other secrets we should know about now?
As well, I wish I had renewed my card when the citizenship cards were still available.
If one wishes to use them as a photo ID, the cards eventually have to be renewed. People age and they are no longer as handsome/cute as they were in the photo on the card. 
I don't think I can use my card as photo ID anymore.
7:57 pm
December 12, 2009
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Norman1 said
Being born in Canada does not always result in Canadian citizenship at birth.One such situation is when a child is born in Canada, the parents have neither Canadian citizenship or Canadian permanent residency, and a parent is a diplomat of a foreign government. Child will have a Canadian birth certificate. But, child will not have Canadian citizenship.
As a result, a Canadian birth certificate is not proof of Canadian citizenship. The Passport Office accepts a Canadian birth certificate as evidence of probable Canadian citizenship. But, the status of the applicant's parents will need to be checked to see if Canadian citizenship was actually obtained at birth.
There is probably a check too to see if the passport applicant has renounced their citizenship.
Okay, fair point. Thanks for clarifying, Norman. The situation you outlined, I would imagine, is not very common, although does every level of employee in a Canadian-based foreign embassy qualify for "diplomatic status" (thinking embassy receptionists and security guards)? If so, then perhaps it's more common than one might think initially. 🙂
I doubt the Passport Office checks our parents' citizenship status on all applications. It's probably more of a "random audit" thing and that's also, in part, I suspect the reason for the guarantor or stat dec in lieu of guarantor.
Can Passport Canada and Service Canada do the stat dec in lieu of guarantor for free? I know Service Canada can certify ID document copies as "true copies" to Passport Canada's acceptability.
Is it possible to un-renounce one's Canadian citizenship or does one have to reapply through naturalization process (thinking Sir Conrad Black, the former Lord of Crossharbour, here)?
Cheers,
Doug
8:26 pm
October 21, 2013
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Norman1 said
As well, I wish I had renewed my card when the citizenship cards were still available.
If one wishes to use them as a photo ID, the cards eventually have to be renewed. People age and they are no longer as handsome/cute as they were in the photo on the card.
I don't think I can use my card as photo ID anymore.
Actually, I think you can. For my mom, this is the only photo ID she has, and it still works although I would say it's about 50 years old. I saw her use it successfully a few weeks ago.
11:54 am
December 12, 2009
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Loonie said
Actually, I think you can. For my mom, this is the only photo ID she has, and it still works although I would say it's about 50 years old. I saw her use it successfully a few weeks ago.
That's correct. As far as I'm aware, you could but if the photo no longer reasonably resembles you, not as "primary ID" but as "secondary ID" for name, signature and date of birth verification, as if it were a non-photo ID. You'd still need another piece of either photo ID, if you wished, or, alternatively, another piece of "type B" ID verifying name and residential address (i.e., a utility bill statement in the past month, usually up to 3 months) would work well. 🙂
Cheers,
Doug
10:45 pm
October 21, 2013
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That's right. You do need another piece of ID to prove address, but not another piece of photo ID unless the person you are offering it to doesn't believe it's you in the photo. This has never happened to mom. I believe it has date of issue on it, so they can see that she would have aged. It's not that hard to figure out it's the same person.
11:04 pm
December 12, 2009
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Loonie said
That's right. You do need another piece of ID to prove address, but not another piece of photo ID unless the person you are offering it to doesn't believe it's you in the photo. This has never happened to mom. I believe it has date of issue on it, so they can see that she would have aged. It's not that hard to figure out it's the same person.
Agreed, Loonie! I personally probably would not ask for another piece of ID unless it was maybe an out-of-town client that I'd never met.
Cheers,
Doug
8:28 pm
December 12, 2015
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Just to clarify, they already have had his SIN number on file for years as he has banked with them for over 30 years. Odd to me that as a known client he needs to show photo ID just to open a US $ account at the branch where he already has business and personal accounts. While online banks process everything without ever seeing our faces.
Oh and you were right Rev Can stands firm on demanding to know exactly which drugs I ingest, they denied the appeal. It is very simple for the pharmacists to write on the receipt that all meds dispensed on this receipt are the tax deductable kind, not vitamines or “snake oil”. But no, my privacy needs more invasion.
And lets not get started on the Morneau and Trudeau Pharmacare bullcrap...
9:08 am
December 12, 2009
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Saver-Mom said
Just to clarify, they already have had his SIN number on file for years as he has banked with them for over 30 years. Odd to me that as a known client he needs to show photo ID just to open a US $ account at the branch where he already has business and personal accounts. While online banks process everything without ever seeing our faces.Oh and you were right Rev Can stands firm on demanding to know exactly which drugs I ingest, they denied the appeal. It is very simple for the pharmacists to write on the receipt that all meds dispensed on this receipt are the tax deductable kind, not vitamines or “snake oil”. But no, my privacy needs more invasion.
And lets not get started on the Morneau and Trudeau Pharmacare bullcrap...
Saver-Mom, what sort of other ID did the bank have on file? They wouldn't have needed to see his SIN, in this case, since they had. If they had other ID, they could've just asked him to show that if they didn't know him and no one else did. If they had no ID, then, legally speaking, they could've taken any two pieces of ID (including non-photo ID) I mentioned earlier.
On the prescription medical expense thing with CRA, did it have a DIN or NPN number on it? Not sure if natural health products with NPNs are reimburseable, but what's your opposition to just giving them the actual receipt? Is it invasive? Perhaps, but no more so (probably less than) when you have to send all manner of receipts and prescription receipts to your insurance company for reimbursement. And, they get to share that confidential information in a private, unregulated (other than through the Privacy Commissioner!) insurance industry database for the purposes of "fraud prevention and other purposes." We regulate the credit bureaus; time to set our sights on the insurance industry and that medical information database! Time for free, annual patient disclosures of information shared, and not shared but held, in that database!
Cheers,
Doug
10:11 am
October 21, 2013
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It's not gonna happen, Doug. The insurance industry is far too powerful.
As regards the CRA, however, I think the rules could be changed so that pharmacists could be empowered to vouch for the fact that the scripts in question meet CRA criteria (which can and should be clearly stated). They are professionals, and they are capable and accountable.
I'm not sure,in the end, though, how much privacy that would really buys you. Not only does the private insurance industry know all about your meds; so too does the provincial health insurance system know all about your health. I don't believe for one second that this is truly confidential. Just ask anyone who has had a travel health insurance claim denied due to some obscure "pre-existng condition".
11:25 am
September 11, 2013
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Here's what CRA needs to support medical expense claims - see "What documents do you need..........."
1:51 pm
December 12, 2009
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Loonie said
It's not gonna happen, Doug. The insurance industry is far too powerful.As regards the CRA, however, I think the rules could be changed so that pharmacists could be empowered to vouch for the fact that the scripts in question meet CRA criteria (which can and should be clearly stated). They are professionals, and they are capable and accountable.
I'm not sure,in the end, though, how much privacy that would really buys you. Not only does the private insurance industry know all about your meds; so too does the provincial health insurance system know all about your health. I don't believe for one second that this is truly confidential. Just ask anyone who has had a travel health insurance claim denied due to some obscure "pre-existng condition".
I agree they're powerful, but if there's enough of populist sentiment in the will of the electorate, change can happen. 🙂
On the latter point, yes that's what I'm saying. Even if you didn't have to disclose your drug names to CRA, it's still in that powerful insurance industry database, not to mention provincial prescription filled databases like PharmaNet out here in B.C. (operated by MAXIMUS Inc., which also operates several U.S. state healthcare exchanges under the ACCA a.k.a. Obamacare in the U.S., Medical Services Plan of B.C., Fair PharmaCare Plan of B.C. and the Family Maintenance Enforcement Program out here in B.C., not to mention a number of WorkBC Employment Services Centres in the Thompson and Okanagan Valleys out here in B.C., too).
Cheers,
Doug
2:02 pm
September 11, 2013
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Maybe I naïve, but help me here: exactly why should I care that my prescription is in some "powerful insurance industry database" or in "provincial prescription filled databases"? What bad things can happen to me?
4:33 pm
December 12, 2009
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Bill said
Maybe I naïve, but help me here: exactly why should I care that my prescription is in some "powerful insurance industry database" or in "provincial prescription filled databases"? What bad things can happen to me?
Oh, nothing major, just what Loonie said, a travel insurance company tries to deny your travel medical claim because they find evidence of a "pre-existing condition" for your having filled a blood pressure prescription for Xarelto even though they, in plain English, state existing medical conditions are covered if "they are considered stable for the past 60 days" or whatever the timeframe is. Insurance companies and lawyers, even though they pretend to loathe & blame each other, are this kind of insidious, parasitic creation that is actually symbiotic in order to ensure their survival. Insurance companies trying to deny legitimate claims to maximize profits for their shareholders causes people to "lawyer up." Insurance companies stall, lawyers don't seem to mind that (even if they say they do) to increase their billable hours, and then, at the last possible minute, client gets one more settlement offer (after they were told the earliest settlement offer was the "best and final offer"). 🙁
The top 5 lowliest occupations (from least lowliest to the lowliest):
* Real Estate Agents
* Mortgage Brokers
* Lawyers
* Commercial Property Managers
* Insurance Claims Adjusters and Adjudicators
Cheers,
Doug
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