March 6, 2024 - Bank of Canada holds key rate steady at 5% | Page 3 | General financial discussion | Discussion forum

Alexandre said
Off topic, but I'll add my $.02. Climate action incentive payment (a.k.a. Carbon Tax rebate) is income dependent. I was helping two seniors who are on GIS with their taxes, last year they were getting $183/quarterly in that rebate for their household, which is $732 in year.  

"The CAIP is not subject to a reduction based on income.To get the quarterly payments, you and your spouse or common-law partner, if you have one, must file an income tax and benefit return. The payment will be paid to the spouse or common-law partner whose tax return is filed first. No matter which one of you receives the payment, the amount will be the same."

https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/rc4215/climate-action-incentive-payment.html

Alexandre said

FastJonny said

The CAIP is not subject to a reduction based on income.

Thanks for correcting me.

To summarize, for the year 2023, in Ontario, Carbon Tax rebate was the following:

Family of two: $732
Single person: $488  

Thanks Alexandre and FastJohnny.
Apparently wife has been "quietly" collecting without letting me know lol. It only goes to the spouse's account that return tax first.

ALL this sounds good BUT as I show and describe here the CB CANNOT and WILL NOT change rates UNLESS the bond market rates change... PERIOD! This is PROVEN over and over and over again. It does not matter WHAT clues the CB gives ahead of time... what matters is how the markets behave... There are many times where the market has NOT reacted the way the CB expected, NOR has the CB anticipated OTHER changes and influences that have affected the bond market. In other words, the CB got it wrong!

The bond market is NOT JUST a clue, it is what the CB follows. Again, do not take my word for it. Check it out for yourself. You do not have to follow or listen to the CB to know for SURE where the CB is going before any announcement.

In the examples savemoresaveten gave, he claimed the changes are CAUSED by the CB, BUT in EVERY example, you can CLEARLY see it is the OPPOSITE. I am always open to new ideas, but they need to be supported by objective data. And in this case, it is VERY clear.

Is the CB giving guidance? Sure they are by giving their interpretation of the economy... I am not denying this... BUT there are MANY influences and the market will do what the market will do.... It is like the Bid and Ask... I can Ask (seller) whatever I want but it is only when the Bid (buyer) accepts that the price is set. The CB may Ask for a certain rate BUT the market will determine the final price. And the charts capture the price action, nothing else.

Note that I have NOTHING to gain to present my findings. BUT these are NOT MY original thoughts. I have just learned from certain experts that have proven this over and over and over again.

smayer97 said
In the examples savemoresaveten gave, he claimed the changes are CAUSED by the CB, BUT in EVERY example, you can CLEARLY see it is the OPPOSITE.

I am not claiming, I am telling you thats how it happened. How do I know ? Cuz I was one of those almighty market guys (to ur eyes) that MADE the changes that you studied via your correlation tool. My description of the who leads who is what actually happened and not deduced by some charts.

CB tells the market they will cut rates in 8 weeks. Market responds by starting to lower rates. CB cuts rates at the next meeting. Whos leading who...

RetireEd, I don't understand what you're referring to, "increased cost flowing through business taxes" - ? And what do GST rebates have to do with carbon taxes? I'm not getting your point.

And note the name's Poilievre.

mordko said
I am not opposed to carbon taxes but pretending that they are “neutral” to consumers because of the rebate is disingenuous.  

Let's face it, a government is not in the business of losing money. Clearly, they have collected much more from taxing Canadians than paying a "rebate". Now, if carbon taxes fixed world pollution, great! But, it won't, because Canada is not isolated by a wrapped bubble from the rest of world. The carbon scam will not insulate this country from whatever climate events we will face. If not all heavy polluters are on board, this mambo jumbo, climate brainwash, is doomed to fail. But hey, we will have hundreds of EV battery plants. The PBO had recently opined negatively about this issue.

BlueSky said

Let's face it, a government is not in the business of losing money. Clearly, they have collected much more from taxing Canadians than paying a "rebate". Now, if carbon taxes fixed world pollution, great! But, it won't, because Canada is not isolated by a wrapped bubble from the rest of world. …

That's false multiple times.

The carbon tax is revenue neutral to the federal government. 90% of the carrbon tax is returned to consumers through rebates. 10% is returned to businesses, schools, municipalities. CBC Explain: Carbon tax change has Canadians asking about the program. explains how it works.

The article also explains how the carbon tax is not neutral to every individual. That's obvious when one looks at the rebate calculation. People are not required to provide litres of gasoline, litres of heating oil, or BTU's of natural gas purchased.

Carbon taxes sensitize people to the price of carbon emissions. That's a good idea. It's not going to stop pollution completely. 14¢ per liter extra on gasoline is not going to stop anyone from driving. At 9L/100 km, that's about $1.25 per 100 km or about $0.63 per 50 km round trip commute. The 63¢ is peanuts compared to the time saved driving instead of taking public transit.

savemoresaveoften said Its basically rewarding those who are wealthy enough to buy a EV, to save via $5000 govt rebate, save on electricity cost vs gasoline AND on top earn a carbon rebate. Since they are not really spending much that "pays a carbon tax", why are they receiving the same rebate ?! Just cant argee with it at all.

The intent is to encourage those who drive lots of KMs in big gas guzzling SUV's and keep their houses at 20C in the winter and 20C in the summer to find greener ways to do things while providing some rebate funding to those who can't afford to go greener.

I'm all for the carbon tax but the Liberals screwed it and themselves royally when they did the fuel oil side-step for a few Newfoundland votes. I personally told Justin, Chrystia and my local MP less than 30 minutes after they made the announcement.

They did the stupid things for votes. Again!

savemoresaveoften said

smayer97 said
In the examples savemoresaveten gave, he claimed the changes are CAUSED by the CB, BUT in EVERY example, you can CLEARLY see it is the OPPOSITE.

I am not claiming, I am telling you thats how it happened. How do I know ? Cuz I was one of those almighty market guys (to ur eyes) that MADE the changes that you studied via your correlation tool. My description of the who leads who is what actually happened and not deduced by some charts.

CB tells the market they will cut rates in 8 weeks. Market responds by starting to lower rates. CB cuts rates at the next meeting. Whos leading who...  

I have acknowledged that the CB tries to influence the markets by giving their desired objective. But the markets many times does not go in the direction that the CB wants it to go, or by as much. And when that happens, the CB DOES NOT change the rate, because the market will not accommodate that. So, at the end of the day, what the CB says does not matter but rather what the CB does matters. And the CB ultimately only adjusts based on what the market can accommodate. So I submit that if you want to see what the CB is most likely to do, the charts are the best indicator.

Alexandre said

savemoresaveoften said

Its basically rewarding those who are wealthy enough to buy a EV, to save via $5000 govt rebate, save on electricity cost vs gasoline AND on top earn a carbon rebate.

It benefits those who do not drive much, and that includes seniors. A couple getting $732 tax free, and without impact on benefits. This is one month of groceries for them. Don't say it means nothing for them.  

But then change the name and drop the word "rebate' from it.
Rebate means one spend something, then get something back.
The carbon tax rebate is set up to reward those who dont generate much carbon for whatever reason, be it EV, heat pump or simply not drive much or take transit.
But its certainly NOT a rebate. Getting 3% rebate on a CC spend is a rebate, carbon tax is not.

At least they are not using income to determine who gets it or not. i am done my rant...