How to Save Money on New House | General financial discussion | Discussion forum

JustMe2016 said
Always buy the hot water tank (instead of renting) SOON after taking possession of your new house. It will save you thousands of dollars. (And upgrade to the 80 gal instead of the default 50 gal).  

Wouldn't that depend on how long you are going to live there and the relative prices of rented and purchased tanks ?

We have just purchased a stacked town house, and are scheduled to take possession in a few weeks.
The house inspector informed us that water heater is over its "serviceable" life span and recommends we change it immediately (it's approx 13 years old), and so we were able to get $1,000 off of the purchase price.
We have been informed it's wise to replace it before something bad happens, would you agree?
We were also informed by a few friends that possible savings from a high efficiency heater isn't worth the extra price.
Thank you.

Re: water heaters. The worst that will happen, actually, is that the thing will spring a leak and you'll have water in your basement.

Unfortunately, these days, since they invented more "energy efficiency", pretty well everything in major appliances lasts about 10 years, no matter what.

My contrarian advice is that if you have an old appliance (perhaps with the exception of water heaters because of the leakage issue, which is a pain if it happens), keep it until it quits.

My experience is that the old stuff works better and longer.

When we sold my father's house in 2011, it still had the original oil burning furnace, over 60 years old. It was not efficient, and, if it were my house, I would probably have replaced it. But the insurance company was practically hysterical simply because it was old. It passed all the tests; there was nothing wrong with it. He also had an old fridge which he kept running in the basement, the kind with the rounded top and the tiny freezer inside the big door. It wasn't quite as old as the furnace, but probably 1950s. Nobody would really want it any more because you had to manually defrost the small freezer, which was not well enough insulated to do a great freezing job. But the point is that it worked fine. It weighed a ton and it undoubtedly used too much power, but it probably would have worked another 20 years.

Those are extreme situations, perhaps, but I see the same sort of thing happening with my own house. I have two freezers. One is small, over 30 years old, works fine, has never had a problem, no-name brand, bought cheap at Honest Ed's and has moved house a few times. The second was bought about 4 years ago, name brand, a replacement for one I'd bought about 15 20 years previous which had died, large, completely unreliable; freezing is uneven, thaw cycles are such that a lot of things actually thaw out. I'm sure the second one will be dead within 10 years of purchase if I don't throw it out first. Junk. but, yeah, it's more "efficient".
Not very efficient when you factor in how it doesn't do the job and you have to throw out food and you have to replace it at least every 10 years. We've kept the old one because -well - it works - and we have a reliable place to store the most sensitive items every time the new one lets us down.

Last year I replaced my gas furnace. It was 29 years old and it was still working fine, passed its tests every year. The only reason we replaced it was because we thought we were pushing our luck at 30 years and didn't want to end up with an emergency in January when all the contractors were over-extended. And we could afford to make that choice. However, the gas company had been sending us hysterical letters with lots of red ink several times a year, and phoning us, for at least 10 years, dire warnings which suggested that if we didn't buy a new furnace immediately (from them, of course), we might all be soon dead. In fact they are still sending them, because they don't seem to have noticed that we got a new furnace - we hired an independent family business instead. Funny how we never hear a peep out of them about our rental water heater. They are less eager to replace that.

Think carefully before you replace anything that doesn't really need to be replaced. The savings you will get on "efficiency" may be eaten up by the costs of early replacement and poor performance of task. Everyone has to make their own decisions and calculations on these issues. For myself, I have come to the unhappy conclusion that a lot of what is called "efficiency" is really better named "sales". When the idea of building more efficient appliances to save electricity first came out, I was very interested and looked forward to the savings I would get when old appliances wore out and were replaced (I could never bring myself to buy new stuff just for the sake of it), but experience has soured me on all but the LED bulbs, which are great! They knew perfectly well when they started building these things that they wouldn't last, but the pressure was there to sell more stuff, make it run on less power, and to promote it as being more "efficient".

One other thing about water heaters.. If I were buying a new house and thinking long term about water heating, I would not be looking for a tank in the basement. I am not sure what they are called, but you can get a new kind where there is a small water heater in the bathroom or whatever which is above the sink (details may vary considerably on this as I don't have one, have only seen them elsewhere). The set-up probably costs more andnot all houses will accommodate, I'm not sure. But these things really work! I wish I knew more about them, but the ones I've seen overseas only heat the water as it is being used, so you are not heating up a whole tank of stagnant water and then paying to keep it hot all day when you're not using it. I can only say that the ones I've seen overseas were excellent. Worth looking into anyway. Remember too that in a stacked house it takes even longer for the water to reach the top floor and you are wasting water while you wait for the hot water to make it all the way up, every time.

If you are going to get a tank in the basement, I wouldn't get any bigger one than you actually need. If there are only two of you, and you don't expect more to join you, then surely the smaller one would be good enough? Why pay to keep extra water hot all the time? Just make sure you drain out the bottom of the tank every so often. Sludge/sediment accumulates there and interferes with the efficiency and longevity of the unit. Make sure you buy one that can be drained and have them show you how to do it before you buy it or at the very least when they install it.

JustMe2016 said

Water tanks from premium company like the one I mentioned in an earlier post are made to last.

My advice to you is shop around for your insurance. I was with Wawanesa and now with Traveler's and neither have EVER bugged me about my water tank. Honestly, I would tell them to F O if ever they were to say a word about my water tank or furnace.

It's just a numbers game...about $800 for new tank all in versus insurance cost increase with other company over 6 years...I'm still likely a few hundred a year cheaper with my current insurance co. (I shop insurance every year)..although I'm not to fussed changing it this year as it's nearly 18 years old.

JustMe - after you've completed the autopsy, you should be able to get a few bucks for the old tank at a scrapyard if you have a suitable vehicle to transport it. I know that not everyone would want to bother, but you seem very frugal.

My own experience is that if you drain it every month or so, the crud doesn't build up the same way. Perhaps you'll be able to keep on top of it with the next one. I hope so.

Re: gas stoves. The old ones basically run forever and are much more durable than electric ones. I have one that is at least 50 years old. All burners work and the oven heat is as even as any.
I had to go to a plumbing supply store once for a part, but I got it. that's all I've done to it in 30 years. It's kind of ugly and I know I should replace it but I'm very reluctant.

However, it's sometimes worth looking in used appliance stores. I assume they still exist? Or you can get them at estate sales or whatever. It would probably take a bit of work or you'd have to get lucky to find something durable. In the last 30 years I have bought two washing machines. I bought both of them at used appliance stores. The first cost 200 and I think the second was about 400 (a front loader). Who really cares what they look like in the basement? I've probably had the second one about 10 years or so and it works fine and has never needed a repair. I just couldn't justify buying a new one. I think 600 is a pretty good price for 30 years (and counting) of washing machine service. This may be harder to do today, as there is so much garbage out there, but it depends on what you find. There are people out there who change their entire kitchens every so many eyas and they dump the appliances.

If I have to buy new, I look first at the warranty and then at the manufacturer's solidity as a business (as best as I can tell). I go for the best warranty. Whatever else they say about how great the machine is or its unique features is irrelevant. Fancy features are useless if the thing doesn't work.

I haven't bought any large appliances since the above-mentioned disastrous freezer (Frigidaire) and last year's furnace and AC. We did recently buy a heavy duty blender through Costco. I figure they'll still be around to honour the warranty, and all you have to do is take it in to Costco and they give you a new one, or so I'm told. The unit is specially made to Costco specifications. Nothing wrong with the old 1960s Braun blender (which weighs a ton) but I'm having trouble getting the sealing rings for it, which need replacement every few years. Ordered a new lid from German ebay a couple of years ago; can't get them here any more either. I haven't thrown it out and will continue to keep an eye on German ebay for the rings.

I also like Cuisinart for customer service. Other people may have different experiences but mine has been excellent. First, they have 3 year warranties on most things where competitors only offer 1 year.
Second, I have an old food Cuisinart/Robot Coupe processor from the 1970s. It was one of the earliest models. A couple of years ago the plastic bowl broke - the plastic had weakened after so many years. I phoned their repair place which I think was in Woodbridge Ontario and they said they thought they could help me, so I took it in. I had to line up for about a half hour but then was helped by a very obliging technician who looked at it and said he could sell me a new bowl that would almost fit, and that if I was OK with letting him file down the plastic on the base, he could make it fit. I said yes, as I had nothing to lose and there was no fee for trying. He made it fit, so I bought the bowl, and have had no further problems. I couldn't have asked for more, and, frankly, was amazed that someone would even try to fix this problem on this old machine - which still has lots of life in it. Weighs a lot more than the new ones - full of metal parts. Weight is often a good criterion - assuming they haven't filled them with bits of salvaged iron!