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Email this4:58 am
October 21, 2013
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Friends were in common-law relationship from 1973 to 1991, at which point they married (each other).
They now wish to do "pension sharing".
They have sworn an affidavit attesting to their relationship at the Service Canada office.
However, now CPP wants more documentation. They suggest things like rent receipts, income tax records, census records, etc., but these are either long gone or difficult to find - especially since most avenues through which one might search for information are currently closed or inundated with inquiries.
Does anyone know if there is a definitive list of acceptable documents, or is it up to the discretion of the person processing the application to decide if they will accept what is offered?
Is such documentation mandatory?
Does anyone know what will happen to the application if they are unable to find any such documentation?
What was the point of the affidavit if it was not going to matter?
Thanks.
7:52 am
April 6, 2013
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A statutory declaration or affidavit is not really objective evidence. Someone could sign an affidavit that they were abducted by aliens for two days! But, that won't be accepted on its own as evidence that it really happened.
The ISP3004 and ISP3104 statutory declarations do indicate that something is required to substantiate the number of months the couple was common-law or legally married. These are examples on the forms:
- Jointly signed residential lease, mortgage, or purchase agreement for the residence
- Jointly owned property, other than residence
- Joint bank, trust, credit union or credit card accounts
- Life insurance on one with the other as beneficiary
9:29 am
September 11, 2013
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Google "how can my common-law partner and I prove we have been together" and a gc.ca webpage will come up with suggestions.
9:31 am
December 12, 2009
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Norman1 said
A statutory declaration or affidavit is not really objective evidence. Someone could sign an affidavit that they were abducted by aliens for two days! But, that won't be accepted on its own as evidence that it really happened.The ISP3004 and ISP3104 statutory declarations do indicate that something is required to substantiate the number of months the couple was common-law or legally married. These are examples on the forms:
- Jointly signed residential lease, mortgage, or purchase agreement for the residence
- Jointly owned property, other than residence
- Joint bank, trust, credit union or credit card accounts
- Life insurance on one with the other as beneficiary
Not an expert on this by any means, but Norman's answer was both concise and seemingly reasonable. Those examples would provide independent verification of the sworn affidavit of the common law relationship. I suppose one other example would be if they had a biological or adopted child together, with evidence confirming that?
Cheers,
Doug
10:40 am
October 21, 2013
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It seems they don't have any of these documents.
Most people don't keep bank statements, leases etc from 30-50 yrs ago, nor does anyone suggest they should.
They did not buy any property until late '80s.
They didn't buy life insurance until after 1991. And they never had children.
They have had joint bank accounts since 1974, but have no documents from the period before 1991.
One of them has income tax records going back that far but the other threw them out.
Does anyone know how to access old income tax records that they no longer possess? Or census records? Or Voters' Lists? - these were all suggested by CPP. City directories might work, if they were listed, but of course all libraries are closed now. Similarly old phone books, as they are fairly sure both names were listed from 1974/5 on, but, again, no library access now.
With everything closed indefinitely, it's almost impossible, even if you know where to look.
There is only one thing that they think is accessible.
Their landlord from 1974-77 is living. If he is of sound mind (would be in 80s), it is likely he would remember them and would write a letter in support of their application saying that they were his tenants.
There are also a few other people who have known them as a couple for all those years and/or would remember earlier periods. These include members of the following professions: physician, lawyer, nurses, teachers, clergy, and professors, although several of these are themselves retired now. One of the retired teachers shared the first apartment with them. They are wondering if their statements might work.
11:56 am
April 6, 2013
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Loonie said
…
They have had joint bank accounts since 1974, but have no documents from the period before 1991.
…
How about a copy from the bank of the signature card for that joint account, with date opened in 1974, or a letter from the bank confirming the date in 1974 that joint account was opened?
12:05 pm
October 21, 2013
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Good idea, Norman, but that particular account is long gone as they have moved several times since then and changed banks several times.
The current one dates from the property purchase, late '80s.
12:23 pm
April 6, 2013
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One of them had tax records going that far back.
Could there be a T5 slip for one of those joint accounts among the records? The first two joint holders would appear on the slip.
12:29 pm
August 17, 2010
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I'm common law too. My partner and I have always declared common law on our income tax forms. I thought that was good enough, I guess not.
12:51 pm
April 6, 2013
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That may be good enough for CRA and income taxes.
But, it looks like HRDC needs something more for CPP sharing to establish exactly how many months, before they legally married, they were in a common law relationship.
Some old drivers licenses with the same address would help. The licenses would establish they lived in the same place. But, they could have been roommates instead of a couple.
1:35 pm
October 21, 2013
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I'll suggest looking for a possible joint T5.
I have the impression though that the joint accounts were only for joint expenses, i.e. a chequing account, until fairly recently, may not have generated a T5.
Yes, old drivers' licenses would help, but no longer available.
Old passport applications might help, but goodness knoww how you'd find them or if they were retained. This was one of my ideas. Apparently they travelled overseas together in 1977.
Toto, there hasn't always been a way to declare common-law status on the T1 I'm not sure when that started, but it isn't on the forms I've been shown. Thanks for the suggestion, however.
I think the reason they are so sticky about this is probably because money is involved. The main reason to do pension sharing is to save on taxes.
Frankly, this seems harder than getting a passport!
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