Holds on transfers | Page 2 | General financial discussion | Discussion forum

Loonie said
Perhaps you pulled from Motive (initiating at EQ) and pushed from Hubert?  

Point well made, Loonie! The situation described by rhvic is unclear as to what process was used in his transaction.

It might help in our understanding when reporting on electronic fund transfers (EFT's) if the words "push" and "pull" were used, so that the source and target FI and EFT method can be better identified.

eg. Push from Hubert to Motive...or..pull from to Motive from Hubert

That way we can learn which FI's are sluggish or speeedy..

BTW I am pleased to report on same day service with a push EFT by Omnia Direct to my big 5 hub account HERE

Stephen

Loonie said

Perhaps you pulled from Motive (initiating at EQ) and pushed from Hubert?  

You're a quick study, Loonie. 🙂

@Nehpets, an excellent idea. We should definitely adopt common terminology, though this is made difficult because the vast majority of people outside of Norman, Rick, Peter, myself, and a couple handfuls of others on these forums that have been educated are not aware of this subtle distinction. That said, perhaps when those that have been educated see future questions or concerns raised by a forum member, they can now do the educating (as you and @Loonie did) and clarify what method of transfer was used.

Generally, in terms of transfer processing times, I've found that the Big 5 Canadian banks, plus National Bank, Tangerine Bank, HSBC Bank Canada, Manulife Bank, Laurentian Bank, Canadian Western Bank, and most of the credit unions that clear through one of the credit union centrals to offer 1-2 EFT processing times.

The exception really is Meridian Credit Union and Motus Bank, which appear to clear directly, or by way of a third-party intermediary, rather than through a Central.

I assume Desjardins has fast 1-2 business day EFT posting timeframes. Uncertain as to Oaken Financial, Peoples Trust, and EQ Bank, among a few others.

Cheers,
Doug

The picture I have is that one is pushing/sending funds when one originates a direct deposit into the clearing system.

In contrast, one is pulling/requesting funds when one originates a pre-authorized debit into the clearing system.

Doug said

Thanks, Norman. Indeed, one of those reasons with the longest return timeframe is "forged endorsement". 🙂

That's useful in cases when a cheque have been intercepted or redirected and the intended recipient's endorsement is forged to cash the cheque.

I think some of Earl Jones' victims were able recover their funds that way. Since the victim didn't know that Jones had sold their investments, the victim didn't know that a cheque was even on its way!

Doug said

... I recall you asking about push/before, Loonie. Glad you've wrapped your head around it. 

When push comes to pull, Loonie's sure to be right on top of it!

Stephen

Nehpets said

Doug said

... I recall you asking about push/before, Loonie. Glad you've wrapped your head around it. 

When push comes to pull, Loonie's sure to be right on top of it!

Stephen  

but when push comes to shove, I think I'd like to shove some of these rules overboard!

Norman1 said
The picture I have is that one is pushing/sending funds when one originates a direct deposit into the clearing system.

In contrast, one is pulling/requesting funds when one originates a pre-authorized debit into the clearing system.  

"As Doug suggested, one needs to push funds to actually send money. When pushing, the transaction is final. The sender cannot afterwards take the money out of the recipient's account through the clearing system. That's why there are no holds on funds pushed using direct deposit, wire transfer, or Interac e-Transfer."

The above statements were pulled from this thread and seem logical to me but they don't seem to work in practice anymore. I had pushed funds into Alterna Bank (it's the one I have linked to Oaken) and then purchased a GIC at Oaken. Funded the GIC with a pull (PAD) into Oaken.
2 weeks passed until Oaken sent an email stating GIC was voided due to NSF. Alterna transaction details showed funds had arrived at Alterna and were pulled the next day by Oaken. PAD was reversed the next day. It took Oaken 2 weeks to realize they had not recieved the funds and cancelled the GIC.
In the end Alterna confirmed that all Me to Me transfers are subject to 5 day hold period and that was the reason Oaken debit was reversed. Oaken didn't ding me for NSF so grateful for that and so I didn't pursue this further but this is a big pain in the arse in that any funds I want to pull into Oaken have to sit in the penalty box for 5 days minimum before I attempt to pull them in.
I am curious if anyone knows if this is specifically related to the Me to Me transfer system in particular ?

At Tangerine, the hold on the funds is at the bank level, not at the account level, i.e., even if the funds are on hold, one can transfer the funds between their accounts at Tangerine. However, when I opened my account at Simplii, I was told that I can't transfer funds between my Simplii accounts if the funds are on hold. So the bank's policy in this regard could also vary.

It seems that pushing the funds has an obvious advantage over pulling the funds as this reduces the hold period. But does pulling the funds result in earning more interest?

Recently I initiated an EFT from my Tangerine savings account to pull funds from my Simplii savings account in the evening of Oct 25. Suppose the amount was $100K. Tangerine showed an entry (credit) in my savings account the next day on Oct 26. Simplii debited my savings account on Oct 27. So does that mean I earned interest on $100K at both banks for one day, the Oct 26th?

The funds could be on hold for 5 days but Tangerine had told me that I'd start earning interest as soon as my account shows a credit entry, even if my funds are on hold, and irrespective of when the other bank clears the funds, which could happen within 1 to 3 days. So, in my case, Tangerine should give me interest on $100K for Oct 26 even though they received the funds from Simplii on Oct 27.

And I'd assume that since Simplii debited my account on Oct 27, they would also pay me interest on $100K up to (and including) Oct 26. Am I missing something here? (I'm sure the banks wouldn't leave a loophole like this.)

Suppose I'm getting 3.5% at both banks. Then, if the above is correct, I'd earn an extra interest of $9.60 for that one day. And so for those of us who don't have to immediately transfer the funds to another bank during the hold period, should we always pull the funds?

If this loophole does exist, should one keep transferring funds, say once a week, between their bank accounts? If one has $200K and has two HISA paying 4.5% (some banks are now offering 4.75% promos), one could earn an extra interest of about $25 a week.

Again, I doubt banks would ever leave such a loophole. But then what am I missing here?

Would this fall into money laundering, etc., and the banks may question me about the frequent fund transfers?