Financial review of Canadian mid-sized banks and credit unions | General financial discussion | Discussion forum

Thanks, Briguy, for the kind words.

Outlook Financial may well only be the third or fourth largest virtual banking division of a Manitoba credit union as it is just an estimate. However, I think my estimates are reasonable and within $25-50 million. They were, to my knowledge, only the second Manitoba credit union virtual banking division (after Achieva). MAXA Financial came next, which had a clunky, amateur looking website until recently, and then Hubert Financial (2011) and Implicity Financial (2013) followed. The "late bloomers" being Ideal Savings and Casera Financial came later, a couple years ago or so. My estimates have MAXA Financial in last place, at ~$41 million in HISA and $23 million in term deposits, but they could be a bit off because of their high number of branches. Even still, I doubt they'd have more than ~15% of Westoba Credit Union's deposits. They also just announced a fee increase to $1.50 for each debit transaction (from $1.00 or $1.25, I think) after the first one and their "service fees" to set up a new EFT (bank-to-bank transfer account link, presumably) are going up from $5.00 to $20.00. I want to like them, but on that basis, I would rank them and Casera Financial (for their tiered interest rate structure) at the bottom of the pack.

Advantage(s) to Outlook Financial: free supplies of cheques (like Achieva and AcceleRate); they use the MemberDirect online banking platform so would have nice, detailed member account e-Statements just like Meridian Credit Union and Entegra Credit Union/Implicity Financial (which also use MemberDirect); and their cashable GIC provisions.

Disadvantage(s): Transaction fees after 1 free debit each month.

Advantage(s) to Achieva Financial: $1.00 credit for e-Statement enrollment, Petal codes & referral bonuses, and free supplies of cheques. They also are one of the more open and transparent Manitoba CUs in terms of disclosing, at a minimum, the number of new members that join Achieva Financial each year (they attracted 200 new clients in 2018). Implicity Financial is one of the better ones at disclosing its new members and/or deposits each year.

Disadvantage(s): Non-standard online banking platform; Transaction fees after 1 free debit each month.

Advantage(s) to AcceleRate Financial: Free cheque supplies.

Disadvantage(s): Non-standard online banking platform; questionable if you can book GICs online, according to forum user reports. Transaction fees after 1 free debit each month.

My "top picks" would be the following:

1) Hubert Financial and Implicity Financial (tied)
2) Outlook Financial
3) Achieva Financial

Cheers,
Doug

Kidd said
I also use Outlook Financial and the error in my understanding with them was... my fault.  So, i would have to say, i am happy with them.

An issue... their forms are located outside the login screen, meaning they are found branched off the left side of their main page.

I suggested... if you made the pages available inside the protected area, 90% of the data wouldn't have to be entered because, it's after the secured login, you would know who i am.  Name, address, account #, secret password, do you have an account with us? Etc.  Me to Me is inside the safety zone but they have restrictive withdrawal limits.  ALL gics are outside the login zone.  Forms are mostly sent electronically, unless a signature is required. 

GICs can be booked online with Outlook Financial, as far as I am aware. Not sure Outlook's Me-to-Me Transfer limit, but all the FIs have gotten more restrictive in the last few years. I think Outlook Financial has both a PDF fillable application form and an online application form (with a credit bureau check).

In the other forums here, i have mentioned. Outlook deposits are 100% insured by an insurance company... okay.  In the event of a major problem, insurance companies NEVER (yes Doug, never) payout in a timely mannor.  After they've crossed all of their eyes and dotted their j's.  My great great great grandkids will have died of old age.   Then, they'll file for bankruptcy protection.

I do not live in Manitoba. I would not want to drive or fly there in the event of a major problem.

You could question, how sound is the province of Manitoba? Though... how sound is canada?  

I would disagree that deposit insurance payouts would be tied up for years, whether CDIC or provincial deposit insurance. While credit union failures are likely more common than bank failures, most failures result in the regulator forcing an amalgamation/acquisition of assets. Thus, assets would not be tied up at all. There might be some pains in terms of potentially having to be re-domiciled under a new transit number or be issued new account numbers, but your deposits would be safe. Even if the deposit regime was tapped and assuming there wasn't a massive calamity that brought down all the Manitoba credit unions at the same time (I'd argue nothing is safe at that point, short of cash stuffed under your mattress or converted to gold bars and a shotgun acquired), they'd have enough reserves and/or borrowing capacity to cover insured deposits.

Your last point is a good one - as I've said several times on here, CDIC is, more or less, useless. I'd like someone to tell me the last time that a Schedule I or Schedule II chartered bank failed and the deposit insurance regime had to be tapped (not a forced sale of assets and liabilities to a new CDIC member institution). I don't think it's happened.

Thus, I'm fine with (a) Manitoba credit unions & provincial government Crown corporation deposit insurance and (b) exceeding my CDIC limits for federally-regulated entities, in most cases.

A final point: the largest financial institution "failure" in Canada was that of a Crown corporation, owned by the B.C. government (for all everyone's talk of government guarantees!), called the Bank of British Columbia. It was akin to the Alberta Treasury Branches. Its assets and liabilities were acquired by Hongkong Bank of Canada (now HSBC Bank Canada) in a likely forced sale/acquisition that proved profitable for HSBC. To the best of my knowledge, no CDIC deposit insurance funds had to be tapped.

Cheers,
Doug

Briguy said
Another huge advantage to Achieva Financial is the free transfer out of RRSP and TFSA.  

I guess, but how often would you need to do that? You can withdraw from your TFSA any time, fee free, and re-contribute elsewhere the same year (if not maxed out) or the following year (if not maxed out).

Maybe for some people that's an advantage in rate shopping, but the transfer fees are why I don't rate shop in a TFSA or RRSP. I'd pick the best, non-promotional rate for HISA and/or GICs and go there.

Also, no guarantee they will keep that. I suspect that may be the most likely fee to change in the next few years, by having them institute a reasonable $25-50 transfer out fee. They could offset that by offering to rebate any transfer out fee when you transfer in a minimum dollar amount, possibly into a GIC of at least 1 year.

Cheers,
Doug

Briguy said
I don't like to rate shop on TFSA or RRSP either, but I like an institution that is confident enough to not charge transfer fees- it makes them stay competitive since their customers have no penalty for leaving. eg. Oaken,Achieva,Peoples Trust,Hubert  

That's true...and there really isn't a benefit to switching between Achieva and another Manitoba credit union, unless you had a bad service experience at Achieva (which could happen). It probably hasn't happened...would you rate their customer service and turnaround times at least as good as Hubert? I would rate Implicity as good as Hubert, so if you would, then then we know that the three of them are equal in terms of service quality excellence.

Cheers,
Doug

Briguy said

I would definitely say no reason to switch between Achieva and any other institution as their rates are consistently good and their customer service is good. I only have a TFSA with them, so haven't been shifting money in and out of them. I would rate Hubert far superior to them in terms of linking external accounts with that microdeposit process they use. I really like Hubert as a hub. I use Hubert for RRSP.  

Yeah, definitely in terms of the micro-deposit account verification method, Hubert Financial is tops (along with EQ Bank, now Oaken Financial, and Tangerine, and any others).

I guess I was just getting at the quality of the customer service representative interactions with Achieva Financial. Have they been as good as Hubert?

Cheers,
Doug

Briguy said

Yes, customer service is as good, although I've rarely used it. From a scale of 1-10 with Rogers Internet and Mobile Phone Customer Support being 1 and Hubert being 10, Achieva ties at 10 🙂  

LOL, love the Rogers reference. I've never dealt with Rogers, but I suspect they're about as good as Shaw Cable out here in western Canada in terms of customer service. Bell is similarly bad (notorious for bad billing errors, from what I've heard). 😉

That's good to hear that Achieva is, just like Hubert and Implicity, top-notch in terms of customer service quality.

In terms of bank customer service, I think I would probably give Tangerine a 6, Scotiabank a 7, Scotia iTRADE an 8, and HSBC about a 4 or 5.

Cheers,
Doug