Estate accounts at Online banks? | General financial discussion | Discussion forum

christinad said
Someone at Canadian money forum commented online banks would be difficult to deal with if the deceased person had held their chequing account at an online bank. Is that the case as they didn't appear to have actual experience with it.  

In general, yes. As much as I love Hubert Financial - and the other Manitoba credit unions - since many or most of them don't even offer power of attorneys, I expect it to be problematic to deal with online banks for an estate account. They quite likely would suspend online banking access entirely and demand your executor deal with them in-person or by mail. They would also likely demand your executor attend a physical branch office location or their head office (i.e., a trip to Selkirk, Manitoba, or similar might be on your executor's itinerary) to serve them with the official death certificate and the official will, which they may photocopy. Otherwise, they are likely to demand notarized copies of your will.

I don't know that this is the case, that you actually need to have your will probated in multiple provinces, but other forum users believe this to be the case.

In short, I recommend having the account linked to a bricks-and-mortar bank electronically so your executor can transfer the funds out immediately before they block your account. Apparently, it's illegal to do this (in the CRA's eyes), but if the transfer is done such that it still stays within the deceased's name (i.e., in an account at a bricks-and-mortar bank), then there's been no attempt to evade taxes. You are just minimizing the bureaucratic headaches.

Cheers,
Doug

Top It Up said

Weren't you part of the ongoing discussion on this Forum last year concerning FIs and their handling of POAs and estates?  

I recall christinad participating in such a discussion. Are you saying we might not need to re-hash the same debate for christinad's benefit, Top It Up?

Cheers,
Doug

Bill said
As far as I know it's estate law of a province, not CRA, that establishes it's illegal to move funds of a deceased person's estate before presenting proof of executorship, etc. And I disagree with the idea that breaking the law is ok if you decide it is, e.g. because the amounts are small, because no tax effect, because you're minimizing administrative work, etc. That's my view, anyway.  

I suppose you never take your dog, on leash, into a "no dogs allowed" municipal park, then?

I take a more liberal view of laws. I question the authority and/or rationale with which they were established (especially nuisance federal regulations and municipal bylaws).

Cheers,
Doug

AltaRed said
To me, there are two separate issues with respect to bank accounts of a deceased. One is the ability to transfer funds from a savings or chequing account out to another FI before probate. The second is the ability to set up and operate an active chequing account in the name of 'estate of X' at an online (especially virtual) bank while an estate is being settled before probate especially. It is the latter that was the key discussion at CMF.  

Many bricks-and-mortar banks are even reluctant to let you operate "estate of ..." accounts. At HSBC, I had supervisors and managers that would try and have us suss out where else the person banked and try and have them take the estate account to that FI.

The changes of getting an "estate of ..." account set up at a virtual bank or credit union are slim to none, at best, in my view.

Even then, many banks want to see a certificate of probate, or at least an application for one, in order to set up an estate account.

I'm just talking about operating a bank account on behalf of the deceased at a virtual bank or CU, which would be highly problematic, I suspect.

Cheers,
Doug

Save2Retire@55 said
This is another previous discussion which can be helpful: https://www.highinterestsavings.ca/forum/general-financial-discussion/savingschecking-account-beneficiary-and-successor/

What I did (and I am 35) was to write a complete detailed will. I did it myself without witnesses but I made sure it is super clear to be legal in courts. I signed it. I even took photos of myself holding the will and signed the photo (Well, this might sound stupid but I am sure it can have legal impact no matter what to proof this is my real will).

I also have all my online accounts usernames / passwords stored in a cold off-internet place with instructions on how to access my accounts. All the accounts are linked to 2 Chequing accounts (Push or Pull) and I told my estate that before griefing on me, the best would be to transfer as much money as possible (Saving or TFSA).

Also, I am sure there are daily transfer limitations and some accounts will be on locked GICs, etc but it is good to get as much as possible before going through the legal fights!  

Thanks, Save2Retire. Yeah, despite any legality of doing so, I would do the same thing as you (that is, instruct my executor to transfer as much money as possible that's not locked up in a GIC to my linked external account in my home province). Why should one potentially have to have their will probated in more than one provincial? More inter-provincial trade barriers and needless red tape! 🙁

I would've still had witnesses for my will and I would also initial every page of the will (believe you're supposed to do that) to make sure it's legal, but your approach is sound, I think.

Cheers,
Doug

P.S. I am 35, too. I suspect Peter is 35 as well, possibly as old as 40.

skibum said
I was executor for my Dad, who had accounts at Presidents Choice Financial (now Simplii) To add to the issue, he had never notified them of my Mom's passing 2 years previous and was still operating the accounts as joint. The balances were in the $5K range. It was surprisingly easy to settle. They requested notarized copies of all death certificates and my Father's Will. I had to include a letter explaining what I wanted and they gave me the address for mailing. I sent the documents via registered mail to their head office and about 2 weeks later I received a draft payable to the estate. I then opened an estate account at one of the banks I dealt with and proceeded. I had a bigger hassle with his account at a regular bank than with the on-line one so sometimes it is just the luck of the draw in bank officers  

Just curious if you could have deposited the estate cheque from Simplii into his bank account at the regular bank, eg. TD Bank, then later on written cheques on the TD Bank account yourself as you have power of attorney on that account. I must confess I'm ignorant about estates.