11:00 pm
December 12, 2009
Bill said
Doug, you seem to be up on this, and you say "As for collusion, conspiracy, etc., yes, both Weston and Loblaw were the primary colluders/co-conspirators. On that note, a wholesaler (Weston) and a retailer (Loblaw) can collude....."(Let's ignore Sobey's, Metro, etc for a moment, they've not admitted anything, they may or may not be involved, so let's stick to those who have admitted.) If Weston and Loblaw are both controlled/owned by the Weston family, and they agree ("conspire") together that Loblaws stores will charge $2.39 for bread instead of the "industry" or usual price of $2.19, and they agree to split the extra 20 cents profit, how is that offensive? People now have a choice of paying $2.39 at Loblaws stores or $2.19 elsewhere, seems fine to me. What am I missing?
Well, for starters, they're not vertically integrated company, as your example suggests. They have the same controlling shareholder in the Weston family and George Weston Ltd. controls Loblaw Companies Ltd., but it's not a majority ownership.
However, than in and of itself is not conspiracy and may not even be collusion, regardless of they're vertically integrated or not. I'm reticent to use the word conspiracy as that's a legal term and no allegations have been proven in court. Weston and Loblaw have alleged it's an "industry wide price fixing conspiracy," so let's suggest that's true. As the #1 or #2 grocery retailer, #1 drug retailer, #1 drug wholesaler, and #1 bread wholesaler in Canada controlling greater than 50% of the bread and/or drug market, who do you think holds the greatest influence/sway over the other bit players? Weston. For them to make accusations and insinuations at Sobeys is wrong. Let's face it, the biggest co-conspirator has plead guilty, and has been granted immunity, barring anything that should revoke it. As such, it would be unfair for the Competition Bureau to punish the others as or more harshly as them when most of them, especially Sobeys and Metro, are basically "bit players" in the alleged conspiracy. 🙂
Cheers,
Doug
11:02 pm
December 12, 2009
Rick said
I'm thinking that people that applied for a card that live at the same address as someone else that applied got flagged for verification. I applied and the wife applied ...same address...prove it. We spent a ton of money on bread at a loblaws during that time period. I don't think 50 bux would even come close to what we spent. Never the less, will not supply a 3rd party with a copy of my drivers license for 50 bux. Told them where to stuff their card and will no longer patronize their business on principle. Will cost them more than the 50 bux I conceded. Should have been clear on the possibility of requiring confirmation BEFORE we applied. That would have been a different story.
Right, and that's not fair. Unless there's an inordinate number of people applying with the same address (i.e., greater than 10), no additional verification should be required - nor allowed. It's conceivable even underage children purchased bread so a typical family of say, 4-6, should be allowed to apply. Right, Loonie?
Cheers,
Doug
11:05 pm
December 12, 2009
skibum said
Just received my Loblaw's $25 gift card and activated it on line per their instructions. Went to Super Store and spent it. No problems or requests for ID. I agree there is a lot more than bread that is "price fixed" in Canada. This is a good start.
Right, but the issue isn't being asked for ID to spend the $25 gift card, it's to receive one. 🙂
Cheers,
Doug
1:04 am
October 21, 2013
Actually, Doug, I wouldn't see any need for a per-household cap.
As i recall, the requirement of the offer was merely that you had to have bought a loaf of one of specified breads at some point during specified years and be of a certain age now. If they had meant to restrict it further, they could have done so. And that is the whole point of this thread, that they added a new and invasive requirement after the fact.
When I was a kid, it was my job to run over to the store after school to pick up any last-minute necessities.
5:31 am
September 11, 2013
Doug, you say "They have the same controlling shareholder in the Weston family and George Weston Ltd. controls Loblaw Companies Ltd., but it's not a majority ownership". True, and also George Weston Ltd. owns 100% of Weston Foods. True, not strict vertical integration, but ultimately control of all businesses by one family as the Westons have a majority interest in George Weston Ltd.
I agree with you if you change my premise to it being "industry wide". As far as my example/question, I'll try and find my answer elsewhere. Thanks for your input.
In my small circle of knowledge, if a household applied for more than one rebate then further verification was requested. I helped 3 neighbourhood widowed friends of my parents complete their applications online, as well as a single one for my Mom, and they all got their money no further questions asked. The old folks were quite happy to get $25.
10:36 am
December 12, 2009
Loonie said
Actually, Doug, I wouldn't see any need for a per-household cap.
As i recall, the requirement of the offer was merely that you had to have bought a loaf of one of specified breads at some point during specified years and be of a certain age now. If they had meant to restrict it further, they could have done so. And that is the whole point of this thread, that they added a new and invasive requirement after the fact.When I was a kid, it was my job to run over to the store after school to pick up any last-minute necessities.
Great points, Loonie. And, to be clear, I don't see a need for a per-household limit either, but it would be something I could live with if it were large enough. 10 might be even too small, especially with multi-generational households now becoming commonplace again thanks to the high cost of housing. It's now conceivable to see a young couple with three kids rent out a basement suite to the husband's parents, and build a carriage house (same civic and mailing address) for the wife's parents meaning you now have 9 people at one address - and that's with only three kids. 🙂
Even though housing prices are out of control in some markets, I, for one, quite like the re-emergence of the multi-generational households that were once commonplace at the turn of the previous century (i.e., early 1900s) with grandparents, kids, and grandkids living together on the family homestead.
In 1980-81, my dad's mom's husband (my dad's dad) had just passed away a few years ago, and all of her sons and their wives had just moved out to Kelowna from Alberta. So, they had 7 people plus one baby (my oldest cousin) living in a two bedroom house on Smithson Drive in Kelowna (for those unfamiliar with Kelowna, this will mean nothing to you). As I understand it, my grandma had one of the bedrooms upstairs, my aunt & uncle had the other upstairs bedroom with the baby, and my mom & dad and other uncle (that's right he wasn't yet married) shared the downstairs basement "suite" (not a legal suite since it didn't have a kitchen or its own bathroom). As you might imagine, all of those women getting ready for work (at the same place - Scotiabank; my grandma may have moved to CIBC then) sharing one bathroom would've required major logistical coordination. They actually had a written "bathroom schedule" and each each was allocated 10 minutes total.
Fortunately, it was all for less than a year until everyone had found suitable rental accommodation, or purchased homes. I believe my mom & dad went on to rent the upstairs of a duplex house on Coronation Avenue in Kelowna. While I never "lived" there (outside of the womb, anyway), I was conceived there. My mom ultimately delivered me in hospital, so it's a moot point, but imagine if she had had to deliver me at that house? We could say that she "crowned" on Coronation.
Cheers,
Doug
11:49 am
March 11, 2018
2:37 pm
December 12, 2009
Pipersierra said
Just curious,
Is anyone opting for the class action instead of the gift card? I saw where it said you can do both, but some lawyer said to think twice about it. thoughts?
Loblaw says you can safely do both, but Loonie pointed out that even that, the judge may invalidate that provision in the agreement that they make you agree to since it wasn't paid in cash - only in "Loblaw dollars" good at Loblaw-owned and operated grocery stores.
I think you're probably safe to do it, but I would participate in any and all class actions, too. 🙂
I suspect, given what Loblaw has already charged for the gift card program, legal costs, possible fines from the Competition Bureau, Privacy Commissioner investigation outcome, court costs from competitors alleging slander and libel, and class action lawsuits, Loblaw's costs alone will rise to north of $1 billion. Add in Weston's costs and it's likely to easily exceed about $1.5-2 billion. Mark my words. 🙂
Cheers,
Doug
12:19 pm
January 10, 2018
http://toronto.citynews.ca/201.....t-card-id/
CityTV News March 17
Privacy experts raise red flag over Loblaw’s request for more gift card ID
..Canada’s privacy commission revealed this week that it is investigating Loblaws for sending letters requesting that some customers mail them a copy of their driver’s license or other ID that’s in their name to verify their identity. “This is so outrageous,” says Ann Cavoukian, a privacy expert at the Privacy by Design Centre of Excellence at Ryerson University in Toronto. “It’s completely unacceptable for them to ask. You’re adding insult to injury when they should really be bending over backward to make this right.”
...
"Cavoukian also doesn’t trust Loblaw when they say that they’re going to destroy the proof of identity documents. “Info gets lost or stolen because of so many people inside handling the documents. They’re putting people at risk.” Instead, Cavoukian says Loblaws should issue an immediate apology and tell people who’ve received the letters that they are destroying any information they’ve received immediately."
...
"So what should you do if you’ve received one of these letters? “Tell Loblaw you’ve given them enough info already and demand your $25 gift card,” says Cavoukian. “If you have a PC Optimum card, then [Loblaw] can ask for that to check ID. But beyond that, don’t offer any ID and go to the privacy commission right away if you receive such a letter."
12:50 pm
February 27, 2018
I spent my years working at GM and i can tell you how greedy people are.
On the Scarborough van plant tear-out. Employees who wanted to take home some scrap material, were asked to submit their names. It was like a pack of hungry wolves. Names were edited and changed in a effort to get more than one shot at the pile of garbage.
Examples like. Bill Jones, also submitted Billy Jones, William Jones, Will Jones, Willy Jones. ALL these names were the same person.
Without doubt, families are requesting dozens if not hundreds of these $25 gift cards.
1:03 pm
October 27, 2013
For what it is worth, the contractor (JND I believe) managing the $25 gift cards told me they do not have access to Loblaw's databases, including loyalty card programs, and thus the reason for residential validation (which I told them no bloody way). Loblaws messed this up by having a third party do this 'dirty' job rather than in-house employees. C'est la vie.
1:17 pm
January 10, 2018
Kidd said
Without doubt, families are requesting dozens if not hundreds of these $25 gift cards.
I am certainly encouraged that my friends and neighbors are honest !
Many of us see this, as an opportunity, to apply for the $25 gift card and then donate $25 or more IN CASH to our local food bank .... helping those that are in need.
regards,
Wayno
7:59 am
January 10, 2018
Wayno said
Folks, I have just responded to Loblaw's request for ID Information:To: Loblaws Program Administrator
To confirm my residential address, I am willing to provide my PC Optimum card number. This card has my identity information.
1. I have used the Shopper's Drug Mart Optimum card for years - registered with name and address.
Your company already has information confirming my residence.
2. I have been at this same residence for the past xx years, with the same email address, and the same telephone number.3. I am unwilling/unable to provide additional ID because of my concern with Identity Theft.
Could you please respond on how you want me to provide my PC Optimum card number.
Thank you.
.. a long time Loblaws/Shoppers customer
Finally Good News !
Loblaws finally did the right thing and agreed to send me the $25 "Bread Card"
without providing any additional documentation. ( No driver licence and NO utility bills).
I am very happy Loblaws acted in a responsible way with one of their customers. I appreciate their efforts to resolve the situation.
I assume they have verified my id with only the PC Optimum customer number I provided.
I have already donated to my local food bank and hope others will also consider helping other less fortunate.
regards,
Wayno
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