9:24 am
January 12, 2019
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This is a sad case of an RRSP account set up years ago, but the beneficiary was never updated.
CBC News Article ➡ https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/registered-retirement-savings-plan-beneficiary-protection-1.6016345
Of course, this would apply to TFSA's & RIF's, as well.
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Dean
" Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! "
10:08 am
January 12, 2019
Kidd said
I read the cbc story earlier.
Did it not say the husband worked in the banking sector? Having his mother listed as his rrsp benefactor may not have been a mistake. Maybe he didn't like his wife that much, 700k that much.
A quote from the article :
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"When Tim first opened the RRSP — as a young man and before they were married — he listed his mother as the beneficiary."
In spite of being a banker, apparently he didn't remember to update his RRSP Beneficiary after he got married.
I'm guessing Lots of people make this (and similar) mistakes ❗
- Dean
" Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! "
10:19 am
October 27, 2013
Based on the content of the story, I agree with Dean the likely scenario was that a change in beneficiary was overlooked when the marriage took place. These things have got to be taken care of....at the time of the event, lest they be forgotten.
The story doesn't say anything about whether the mother, as beneficiary, and likely in her 70s or 80s, may have been able financially to take a compassionate view of the situation and subsequently 'gift' some of the proceeds back to the mother, or if not the mother, to the granddaughter in trust.
While it does not appear to be the case here, I don't think the law should necessarily be changed to give the surviving spouse preferential treatment on registered accounts, if said surviving spouse cannot necessarily be trusted with financial 'windfalls'. That surviving spouse in turn could then bequeath, in their own will, some or all of that residual back to their own blood line rather than keeping it within the immediate family.
10:27 am
September 11, 2013
Just run to CBC whenever anything bad happens, they and their bleeding heart fans eat this stuff up. More government because I'm inattentive!
The guy had 3 weeks before he died to make sure all is good, so my assumption is he wanted it as is. And what about his mother, why didn't she hand the dough over to the wife (after taxes, granted)?
Also, didn't the mother get ripped off? As beneficiary shouldn't she have gotten the full amount of the RRSP, not the after-tax amount?
11:02 am
April 6, 2013
Parts of the story don't make sense. There is likely more to the situation than mentioned in the story.
According to the CBC story, the RRSP was among the assets catalogued when his will was done. The RRSP was not forgotten:
Taylor and her husband listed their assets, including the RRSP, when they created their will years before he fell sick. The will stated that 100 per cent of their estates would each go to the other, should one of them die.
If he wanted to, he could have had a bequest in his will that would override, revoke, or confirm any previous beneficiary designation on the RRSP.
I don't see a need to change the law because a former spouse is unhappy. It could be as AltaRed mentioned. The spouse may have self discipline issues and he believed she would squander a windfall.
It may end up being $300,000 after tax. But, the spouse may carry on afterwards as if it was $300,000,000!
I think it is also significant that he didn't contribute to a spousal RRSP for his wife.
It is a good idea to review the beneficiary designations on registered accounts and in one's will to ensure that they are what one wishes. Also, make sure designations on the account don't override the ones in the will and other way around. The later designation or revocation is what prevails.
11:21 am
March 30, 2017
4:09 pm
January 12, 2019
Norman1 said
. . .
It is a good idea to review the beneficiary designations on registered accounts and in one's will to ensure that they are what one wishes. Also, make sure designations on the account don't override the ones in the will and other way around. The later designation or revocation is what prevails.
Well said ⬆ Norman ... that's my intention in starting this thread.
In addition, we should also keep our estates, wills, directives, etc., 'All In Good Order & Up To Date'. So that when we pass, we don't leave any Nightmares behind, for our loved ones to have to deal with.
- Dean
" Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! "
6:11 pm
April 6, 2013
Bill said
It did say "They even included a revoking clause in the will that would override the issue should a beneficiary be forgotten." But the lawyers said it wasn't enough.…
I think I found the previous 2016 Nova Scotia court case the lawyer mentioned: Mulrooney Estate (Re), 2016 NSSC 352
Looks like in Nova Scotia and in BC, general revocation clauses in a will are not sufficient to revoke previous beneficiary designations on registered accounts, "unless the language indicates a clear intention to do so."
In that case, this clause failed legally to revoke any existing RRSP beneficiary designations:
4. I DIRECT THAT all of the REST AND RESIDUE of my Estate both real and personal, of whatsoever nature and kind, and wheresoever situate, including the proceeds of any Registered Retirement Savings Plans and/or Registered Retirement Income Plans, Securities or Stocks, or any other Pension Plans that I may own or have an interest, and also over which I may have any power of appointment or disposal at the time of my death, be given to my Trustee upon the following trusts…
7:26 pm
October 27, 2013
I suspect that clause failed because it did not specifically say to revoke all previous (or any for that matter) beneficiary designations on registered accounts. It also includes pension plans which I suspect would likely be contrary to pension legislation where a surviving spouse has an entitlement.
8:37 pm
April 6, 2013
Also, if the beneficiary designation on the account is not revoked, then the account actually passes by operation of law and bypasses the estate. If the estate is bypassed, then the will has no say.
That's similar to what happens with a joint tenant account on the death of one of the holders.
I suspect that "including the proceeds of any RRSP's and/or RRIF's, or Stocks, or …" only applies to proceeds of those mentioned assets that actually pass through the estate.
10:32 pm
October 21, 2013
I agree that there is missing information here. We don't know precisely what the will said.
As for the question of why he didn't update during his 3 weeks of remaining life, I imagine he was in a lot of pain, possibly blotto due to morphine etc., believed the revocation in the will had resolved the matter, and was not focused on the mundane.
i would question what the lawyer who drafted the will was doing. He/she ought to have properly dealt with the RSP so that it would not later revert to a previous beneficiary.
11:11 pm
April 6, 2013
I'm not sure an error was made.
In the Mulrooney Estate case, judge found that no mistake was made. The circumstances indicated as well that the deceased did not intended to revoke the beneficiary designation.
A residual beneficiary brought the challenge to court and lost. She and the other residual beneficiaries were hit with the full legal costs of the challenge through the estate.
4:36 am
October 21, 2013
Well, as I said above, we don't actually know what this particular will said. I was just bringing up the question of the lawyer as something that would need to be looked at.
There is also a hint in this case that the wife may not have chosen to proceed in court, possibly due to costs.
Having made a "federal case" out of this situation, the wife in this case is not too likely to inherit anything from her mother-in-law!
For all we know, the husband may have felt he owed his mother something if he wasn't going to be around to take care of her. It may have been intentional. Something very similar happened in my family in the 1930s, but that was before family law or RSPs came into the picture. It caused a permanent rift.
6:10 am
November 8, 2018
I think this was one smart banker.
He wanted to leave some money after his death to someone other than his wife, discreetly, and in such way that even his will won't overwrite it.
Much better than putting stipulation in his will that wife will see, and for the rest of his life getting resentment from her about not leaving everything to her and their daughter.
10:19 am
April 6, 2013
Someone could do the same thing with the required revocation and bequest in the will. A few days after the will is executed, quietly go the bank and sign a new beneficiary designation to the mother.
Anyone reviewing the will will think one thing. What will happen on death will be another.
The challenge in such cases is that the article has only one side of the story. It could be a botched do-it-yourself will. It could be, as in the Mulrooney Estate case, a lawyer prepared will that deliberately did not revoke beneficiary designations.
Judge in the Mulrooney Estate case found the circumstances also did not support revocation of the beneficiary designation. The beneficiary designation was signed before the will was executed. But, it was signed while the deceased was in the middle of discussions and editing of the will with his lawyer.
12:02 pm
September 11, 2013
No need to try and guess whether error was made, what intentions were, etc, just go with the written docs. Per docs RRSP was to bypass estate, i.e. not covered by Will, and go directly to Mom, end of story. This is just a widow who runs to the enabler-media because she got shortchanged, her mother-in-law wants the money too and the lawyers told wife she had no recourse. I'm pretty sure we on here would like our written directives to prevail over people speculating about what we really wanted, what a lawyer drafting our will should have or should not have done, etc, etc, etc.
Whether or not a person's individual RRSP (i.e. there is no such things as a joint RRSP, by design they were made for individuals only) should be considered to be something a spouse (latest one? previous one(s)?) is entitled to can be addressed by the law, if the province or country feels RRSP entitlements should be carved out for special protection compared to other individual assets on death .
1:27 pm
February 27, 2018
Tim Taylor to have $700k in his individual rrsp account at the age of 50, states right there... he had a high paying job and/or he invested wisely, so he was no fool. Add to that, he was a banker. So, I'm sticking with my original thought in post #2.
I had what i would consider a good job. After paying off a mortgage and living expenses, when i retired i did NOT have $700k in my individual rrsp.
Did any of you?
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