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Email this6:37 am
April 6, 2013
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RetirEd said
…
In news items, I'm seeing interviewed merchants complaining that almost 100% of their business is paid by credit card, and this will help them a lot.Hey, if almost all their business is via credit card, they are OBVIOUSLY already pricing the surcharge in! BUSTED!
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That's right! The credit card acceptance costs have been baked into the shelf prices all along.
It would be like the merchant adding a new cashier handling surcharge for the cost of the cashiers to scan the purchases and collecting payment.
7:10 am
December 20, 2019
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Seriously guys...
I run a few online stores and do millions in sales, I have a standard markup that goes lower and lower as competition intensifies. Canada Post rates have skyrocketed and I am paying almost double to deliver the product.
I have not raised prices in 3 years and have absorbed all costs, you guys are completely wrong when you say the merchant fees are built in. Even the merchant fees went so crazy stupid high I had to drop credit cards and have gone exclusively e-transfer.
The raising of merchant fees have a REAL effect on merchants and for you to just assume they are built in is not correct. I have a 35% markup margin and that has to pay all overhead costs, shipping, expirations, customer returns and more and more and more.
Then we have not even addressed the chargebacks because instead of calling customer servive the end user just does a chargeback. Those cost me 9% of the sales the last year I took cards. Then we have fraud, I got an approval and sent the package, it gets charged back. I call visa and said I have an approval, they say too bad it was fraud.
How the hell do I build all that shit into my pricing.... so please everyone saying this is built in you have to be a merchant to see all the shit we have to put up with you have no idea of the losses.
My margins are shrinking
postal rates are up
fraud and theft is higher than ever
merchant fees are gouging, I paid all the way to 4.5% for some transactions
You're damn right I would charge the 3.5% fee if I still took cards.
The other option, do like I did and stop taking them. My sales went down 10% initially but recovered within 3 months. Now instead of 35k annual fees I pay $240 for the year. I also saved all the chargebacks and fraud which added up to tens of thousands.
Little do consumers know that when you claim credit card fraud you get the money back and they bill it back to me even though I delivered the product. I asked merchant services and said why am I paying 35k a year, I should be protected. The reply was... Sir you are welcome to shop for a different merchant service.
The fee to use credit cards is a long time coming because credit card fees are only part of it. There is fraud and all kinds of other crap, merchants can never really recover all the costs for accepting credit cards and we bear the biggest brunt for accepting them.
Not me, I had enough of all the crap, you want my goods you pay e-transfer or nothing. Never had fraud, never had a complaint, have a 5 star business profile so I am living proof you can do business without charge cards.
11:59 am
April 14, 2021
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RetirEd said
Loonie: if we are concerned about double surcharging (priced in + surcharge), we should NOT switch to cash or debit when informed of the new surcharge! That just gives the merchants what they want.We should, IMHO, ask whether they surcharge BEFORE buying anything, and walk out if they do. Otherwise we should leave our purchases at the counter and walk out, which is more of a pain for us as well as the merchant.
Very good idea. I will certainly use it and only ask about surcharges at the very the end. Leaving them holding a big bag of customized take-out food is the best revenge and loudest feedback.
1:39 pm
March 17, 2018
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KamWest said
Seriously guys...I run a few online stores and do millions in sales, I have a standard markup that goes lower and lower as competition intensifies. Canada Post rates have skyrocketed and I am paying almost double to deliver the product.
I have not raised prices in 3 years and have absorbed all costs, you guys are completely wrong when you say the merchant fees are built in. Even the merchant fees went so crazy stupid high I had to drop credit cards and have gone exclusively e-transfer.
The raising of merchant fees have a REAL effect on merchants and for you to just assume they are built in is not correct. I have a 35% markup margin and that has to pay all overhead costs, shipping, expirations, customer returns and more and more and more.
Then we have not even addressed the chargebacks because instead of calling customer servive the end user just does a chargeback. Those cost me 9% of the sales the last year I took cards. Then we have fraud, I got an approval and sent the package, it gets charged back. I call visa and said I have an approval, they say too bad it was fraud.
How the hell do I build all that shit into my pricing.... so please everyone saying this is built in you have to be a merchant to see all the shit we have to put up with you have no idea of the losses.
My margins are shrinking
postal rates are up
fraud and theft is higher than ever
merchant fees are gouging, I paid all the way to 4.5% for some transactionsYou're damn right I would charge the 3.5% fee if I still took cards.
The other option, do like I did and stop taking them. My sales went down 10% initially but recovered within 3 months. Now instead of 35k annual fees I pay $240 for the year. I also saved all the chargebacks and fraud which added up to tens of thousands.
Little do consumers know that when you claim credit card fraud you get the money back and they bill it back to me even though I delivered the product. I asked merchant services and said why am I paying 35k a year, I should be protected. The reply was... Sir you are welcome to shop for a different merchant service.
The fee to use credit cards is a long time coming because credit card fees are only part of it. There is fraud and all kinds of other crap, merchants can never really recover all the costs for accepting credit cards and we bear the biggest brunt for accepting them.
Not me, I had enough of all the crap, you want my goods you pay e-transfer or nothing. Never had fraud, never had a complaint, have a 5 star business profile so I am living proof you can do business without charge cards.
Very good points.
Can't people scam you on etransfers too ? I've heard of people selling merchandise on ebay or kijiji and somehow the buyer was able to recall their etransfer after they picked up the merchandise.
1:48 pm
December 12, 2015
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This is a dumb idea as it will increase the use of cash which is harder to trace, and will lead to more tax evasion. Maybe we should all switch to using cash…
1:55 pm
December 20, 2019
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Briguy said
Very good points.
Can't people scam you on etransfers too ? I've heard of people selling merchandise on ebay or kijiji and somehow the buyer was able to recall their etransfer after they picked up the merchandise.
Let me put it this way.... my online stores have received over 20,000 e-transfers with no fraud.
E-Tranfers cannot be recalled once sent, the mistakes you hear about are people sending them to the wrong email address. Then just like handing cash to a stranger you can ask for it back but it is totally up to the stranger to decide to give it back or not.
As far as the security goes, make sure you have 2 factor security turned on in your email and then receiving e-transfers should be safe.
Again, I can only say that I have had ZERO issues, no fraud, no recalls, no complaints and well over 20,000 transactions.
2:00 pm
October 21, 2013
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I can't help but remember all the times KamWest has come to this forum complaining about difficulty finding places to put his/her million-dollar-plus savings accounts due to account limits. I'm sure he/she will find ways to make a good profit in the tried-and-true fashion of increased prices, for which CC surcharges can only be a bonus.
If consumers choose not to supplement those million dollar accounts, well, maybe we didn't need all that stuff anyway.
2:12 pm
March 17, 2018
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KamWest said
Let me put it this way.... my online stores have received over 20,000 e-transfers with no fraud.
E-Tranfers cannot be recalled once sent, the mistakes you hear about are people sending them to the wrong email address. Then just like handing cash to a stranger you can ask for it back but it is totally up to the stranger to decide to give it back or not.
As far as the security goes, make sure you have 2 factor security turned on in your email and then receiving e-transfers should be safe.
Again, I can only say that I have had ZERO issues, no fraud, no recalls, no complaints and well over 20,000 transactions.
This is the scenario that can happen:
Buyer uses someone else's (compromised) account to pay. The account owner eventually notices and reports the fraud. Bank reverses transfer.
2:14 pm
December 20, 2019
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Loonie said
If consumers choose not to supplement those million dollar accounts, well, maybe we didn't need all that stuff anyway.
Wealth does not come in a short period of time, it takes years and the last few years have not been even remotely good at making profits. It seems from supplier issues to shipping to labour there is no end to the increased costs.
It is definitely not like days of old.
In regards to you saying maybe we don't need that stuff....
As small businesses close consumers will be forced to buy from a few players who will control the market. I can assure you at the rate the market is changing a large number of small businesses will close and you are right you don't have to buy from them, just keep supporting walmart and the world will be in perfect harmony.
2:16 pm
December 20, 2019
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Briguy said
This is the scenario that can happen:
Buyer uses someone else's (compromised) account to pay. The account owner eventually notices and reports the fraud. Bank reverses transfer.
An e-transfer cannot be reversed once it is deposited
https://www.google.com/search?q=can+an+e-transfer+be+reversed&rlz=1CAZTQG_enCA977&oq=can+an+e-transfer+be+reversed&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i22i30l5j0i390.7604j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
4:29 pm
October 21, 2013
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KamWest said
Wealth does not come in a short period of time, it takes years and the last few years have not been even remotely good at making profits. It seems from supplier issues to shipping to labour there is no end to the increased costs.
It is definitely not like days of old.
In regards to you saying maybe we don't need that stuff....
As small businesses close consumers will be forced to buy from a few players who will control the market. I can assure you at the rate the market is changing a large number of small businesses will close and you are right you don't have to buy from them, just keep supporting walmart and the world will be in perfect harmony.
Wealth may or may not come in short period of time. Somebody made a bundle on idiotic pet rocks in a short period of time!
The smart business person knows there will be downturns and bears this in mind in planning and responding.
You clearly have enough millions to get you through. If the business model isn't working any more, do something else. Yeah, it's tough sometimes, but it's part of the package when you set out to become wealthy.
There are always ups and downs in business, and there are always creative newcomers who find a new way to make money.
In my neighbourhood, some businesses closed during the worst of the pandemic (and in my opinion most of them ought to have) but there are new businesses opening almost weekly now. The creative types are doing things differently. One shop has 3 different vendors, for instance. Another, a specialty bakery, started at farmers' markets, was successful, and has now moved into a shop. It's expensive, the quality is very good, and I buy their products.
Some of these will fail, as a significant percentage of small businesses always do. Some wannabe entrepreneurs have no idea what they are doing, and there are essentially no bars to entry.
I'll be happy if the new businesses have good products and succeed. It will help my property values and I won't have to drive anywhere to shop.
I was part owner of a small incorporated business for many years. I know what it is to get ripped off but I don't go on about it while also complaining about FIs that won't give premium rates for outsized deposits. We took our lumps and learned from them.
I don't shop at WalMart.
5:41 pm
February 7, 2019
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Loonie said
I don't shop at WalMart.
Amen!
| CGO |
1:55 am
November 18, 2017
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HermanH: Now, ordering things that can't be restocked and then not paying is really douchey. That's like ordering pizzas and sending them to your high-school principal's address and phone number. Be reasonable! We're trying to send a message, not vandalizing!
RetirEd
RetirEd
10:46 am
January 12, 2019
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Dean said
KamWest said
No, I disagree
It starts with a few, and as time passes and the shock wears off more and more businesses will add it especially restaurants because they pay the highest merchant fees of almost anyone.
Watch and see, the uptake will be small and carefully orchestrated until everyone jumps aboard.
. . .
HermanH said
Telus broke the dam. If they can do it, so will everyone else.
.
Business in the US, the UK, and most of Western Europe have been allowed to add CC purchase surcharges for years now ... but in all the time that's passed, only a very few have dared to follow through with it.Please tell us why it's going to be so 'Horribly Different', here in Canada ❗
Dean
P.S.
Reminds me of . . .
.
Two days later, and we're 'Still Waiting' for your answers ❗
Cough it up, Boys. 
- Dean
" Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! "
11:22 am
April 14, 2021
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RetirEd said
HermanH: Now, ordering things that can't be restocked and then not paying is really douchey.
Ordering things that you never intended to buy is indeed poor taste. However, ordering a product and only asking / learning of the surcharge at the point of payment / sale and then refusing to pay it is fair game.
11:51 am
April 14, 2021
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Dean said
Two days later, and we're 'Still Waiting' for your answers ❗
Current polls suggest that about 20% of businesses will try to implement a surcharge and 25% are waiting to see what their competitors do, first.
Surcharges will be like the introduction of price-matching policies, decades earlier. Walmart entered the market and started P-M, thereby forcing all other retailers to follow suit. When Walmart ended the policy, it did not fully disappear, but was significantly curtailed by many competitors.
Smaller transactions may escape, such as groceries. However, those annual insurance payments are almost certainly going to see surcharges added.
12:51 pm
January 12, 2019
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HermanH said
Dean said
Two days later, and we're 'Still Waiting' for your answers ❗Current polls suggest that about 20% of businesses will try to implement a surcharge and 25% are waiting to see what their competitors do, first.
. . .
We've already seen those ⬆ stats. They're from a random/unscientific poll, done by the CFIB back in September. They're not worth a row o' beans.
.
We ask again . . .
-
"Business in the US, the UK, and most of Western Europe have been allowed to add CC purchase surcharges for years now ... but in all the time that's passed, only a very few have dared to follow through with it."
.
Please tell us why it's going to be so 'Horribly Different', here in Canada ❗"
.
Dean
" Live Long, Healthy ... And Prosper! "
9:32 am
November 18, 2017
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Let's all report when and were we meet a surcharge demand here!
I lean toward expecting businesses whose customers have no easy options to apply them.
Another question: for outfits offering their own credit cards - department stores and fuel companies, for example - I suspect they will push their own cards and try a surcharge for others.
RetiEd
RetirEd
5:46 pm
November 8, 2018
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I've made $600 in cashbacks in 2021. It is not such a large amount that my budget will tank without it, but it was nice while it lasted.
I wonder how merchants will be charging CC processing fee. Will it be one fee for any credit card, or will it be depending on the type of credit card one uses.
I have TD Visa 3% cashback card, so if grocer where I shop sets 2% generic CC processing fee, it would still make sense for me to use that credit card.
Even if merchant fee exceeds my credit card cashback, I am not going to take hundreds of dollars with me in cash to pay for groceries every time I visit grocery store (once a week), and I am not going to start writing cheques again to pay my bills. The choice will be some form of electronic payment. Perhaps, not a credit card.
Please write your comments in the forum.