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Email this3:27 pm
October 21, 2013
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taxable.
It's not a lot but it all helps.
3:58 pm
January 11, 2020
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Not much is an understatement
I got $4.. but I’ll enjoy a Timmy’s on my commute twice and be thankful:)
3:59 pm
January 11, 2020
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My wife got $4 too
So that will be promptly moved to the joint account and I’ll enjoy 4 days 🙂
4:08 pm
October 21, 2013
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MattS said
Not much is an understatement
I got $4.. but I’ll enjoy a Timmy’s on my commute twice and be thankful:)
Not so fast, MattS!
One of the quirks of DUCA is that you can't cash it immediately.
I think the deal is that you can either cash 10% of it annually, or you wait seven years to get the whole $4.
They also pay you a little wee bit of interest on it every year.
I'm up to $89 now. Maybe I'll still be alive when the first year's amount finally becomes available. If you think about it, it's rigged so that you can NEVER get the full amount until you're dead or quit DUCA!
I do know a couple who have belonged to DUCA for about 50 years and they're quite happy as they have actually gotten money out of it for the last 43!
11:31 am
March 30, 2017
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I see 2 entries, 1 for $4, another 1 for $70. i must have won the jackpot lol
1:24 pm
October 21, 2013
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I think, but am not certain, that one figure represents the interest on the amount that was already in the Class A Bonus Shares; the other represents patronage for 2021. I don't feel like running the gauntlet of a phone call to find out though! DUCA wins the prize for the most unnecessarily complicated sets of accounts IMO.
10:04 am
October 21, 2013
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Today's email offers the following explanation:
"Class B investment share dividends
On March 1, 2022, DUCA’s Board of Directors declared a dividend of 4.25% on Class B Series 4 shares and 3.00% on Class B Series 1 shares.
The amount of the dividend on Class B Series 4 shares and Class B Series 1 shares is based on shares that Members held as of December 31, 2021.
Profit sharing
DUCA is proud of its record of profit sharing. Our program is comprised of two elements:
Annual profit sharing (patronage) based on the amount of interest earned and paid by Members during the year. This component is provided to Members through Class A profit sharing shares and/or cash payments.
A dividend paid on accumulated Class A profit sharing shares.
DUCA’s Board of Directors was pleased to approve annual profit sharing (patronage) and to declare profit share dividends of 2.00% on all Class A profit sharing shares held by Members on December 31, 2021. For Fiscal 2021, patronage and profit share dividends totaled $1.5 million."
Anyone who can match that up with their statement deserves a gold star!
My interepretation is that the first part refers to members who bought investmetn shares in DUCA, and the second part ("Profit Sharing") refers to your business with them.
Short version: 2% on the interest you received in 2021, and 2% on the accumulated patronage dividends you had received in previous years and still on the books.
I hope I've got that right.
10:38 am
March 30, 2017
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Loonie said
Today's email offers the following explanation:"Class B investment share dividends
On March 1, 2022, DUCA’s Board of Directors declared a dividend of 4.25% on Class B Series 4 shares and 3.00% on Class B Series 1 shares.The amount of the dividend on Class B Series 4 shares and Class B Series 1 shares is based on shares that Members held as of December 31, 2021.
Profit sharing
DUCA is proud of its record of profit sharing. Our program is comprised of two elements:Annual profit sharing (patronage) based on the amount of interest earned and paid by Members during the year. This component is provided to Members through Class A profit sharing shares and/or cash payments.
A dividend paid on accumulated Class A profit sharing shares.
DUCA’s Board of Directors was pleased to approve annual profit sharing (patronage) and to declare profit share dividends of 2.00% on all Class A profit sharing shares held by Members on December 31, 2021. For Fiscal 2021, patronage and profit share dividends totaled $1.5 million."Anyone who can match that up with their statement deserves a gold star!
My interepretation is that the first part refers to members who bought investmetn shares in DUCA, and the second part ("Profit Sharing") refers to your business with them.
Short version: 2% on the interest you received in 2021, and 2% on the accumulated patronage dividends you had received in previous years and still on the books.
I hope I've got that right.
my class A bonus share balance was $220 so 2% = $4 reconciles.
However the other amount of $70 does not equal to 2% of the interest I recd in 2001. In other words think the $70 added to my account is the prorated sharing of the $1.5mm instead.
11:11 am
April 6, 2013
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It looks like the $70 is the total of
- the patronage and
- a 2% dividend on Class A profit sharing shares held on December 31, 2021.
Scratch that. From what savemoresaveoften wrote, it is more likely $70 is the patronage, out of what is left of the $1.5 million after subtracting the 2% profit share dividend paid on the Class A shares.
12:50 pm
October 21, 2013
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My numbers don't make sense either - and suspiciously round.
The patronage amount I got is half of what I think itit should be.
The dividend amount is a bit higher than it should be, but of course it is the much smaller amount.
2:43 pm
September 15, 2017
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I'm often amazed by some questions, comments and conjecture in so many of these threads, when a simple phone call can reveal the answer.
The patronage dividend is 1% of interest earned in the previous calendar year. (I believe you get 0 if the patronage dividend is less than $10.) That 1% is not revealed in the CEO's letter (too embarrassing?). The dividend of 2% is on the December 31, 2021 balance of class A profit sharing shares. Of course, all calculations are rounded down.
These dividends appear as interest income on T5 slips, although they are not fully vested for about 7 years. You can start withdrawing 10% after 1 or 2 years and increasing percentage in later years. You are paying income tax before you can even claim part of the money and you are paying tax on the full amount, even if you claim only part and forfeit the remainder because you didn't wait until all money is vested or you die. If you forfeit part, it would seem reasonable on your tax return to deduct from income earned the amount never to be received as an adjustment.
3:24 pm
April 6, 2013
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The patronage is 1% of interest earned or paid, rounded down? That is embarrassing!
If I had a 2% per annum GIC with them, I would get an extra 1% x 2% = 0.02% as patronage! A boost from 2% per annum to 2.02%.
Then, I have wait years to get that 0.02% out!
How about cutting the theatrics and just give an extra 2 bps on deposits and shave 2 bps off loans?
5:29 pm
October 21, 2013
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Either the Chair of the Board, who wrote the email, made an error (perhaps just copied form previous year's letter) , in which case the dollar amount we have received is likely correct and should be at 1%; or the letter is correct and the dollar amount calculation is wrong.
I would not trust that this can be reliably resolved by calling MemberConnect.
I say this because last year was full of errors and it took me several phone calls to get it straight.
This is what happened last year with my account:
First, they credited Class A Bonus Shares Account with the correct amount for patronage, then they debited the same amount; then they credited the dividend amount to Class A Shares, where it belongs; then they credited the patronage amount to the chequing account, where it remained and was accessible to me.
This was in contradiction to previous policies where the patronage amount always went to Class A Shares and was inaccessible for 7 years or 10% annually. I was told that this was not necessarily a permanent change, but it was presented to me as a kind of magnanimous gift (to be able to access the amount). I considered that they'd made an error and this was the best way they could deal with it. All of this followed a massive computer upgrade.
Then, also last year, they made an error with the T5 slips. They omitted the patronage shares which had gone to the chequing account from the T5s and had to re-issue them and consult with CRA about the error. It took them far too long to recognize the error and address it. I was aware that my numbers didn't match u but didn't look into it immediately. I ended up in an argument with my accountant who didn't want to update the submission at my direction even after I showed him the letter from DUCA. (Getting a new accountant this year!)
Given that history, I am sceptical about what has happened this year. I don't think we can know, yet, what has gone wrong, and I don't think calling MemberConnect will necessarily provide correct answer. Whatever it is, we are owed an apology and a written explanation.
5:33 pm
October 21, 2013
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I like the patronage system when it is well manged. I don't consider it theatrics. I consider it prudent. Don't give away what you don't yet have - makes sense to me.
5:58 pm
October 21, 2013
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The problem seems to be worse than I thought...
Spouse joined DUCA last year. There are no patronage amounts for spouse or for our new-last-year joint account. At 2%, these would have added up to about $11.
5:34 am
March 30, 2017
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Norman1 said
The patronage is 1% of interest earned or paid, rounded down? That is embarrassing!If I had a 2% per annum GIC with them, I would get an extra 1% x 2% = 0.02% as patronage! A boost from 2% per annum to 2.02%.
Then, I have wait years to get that 0.02% out!
How about cutting the theatrics and just give an extra 2 bps on deposits and shave 2 bps off loans?
I can confirm 1% of interest earned round down to the nearest $10 in my case.
It could just be from the $1.5MM, after deducting 2% or the $4 that most reported, whats left of the $1.5MM ends up equivalent to a 1% payout based on prorated interest earned.
It may be peanuts but I never expect to receive it anyway, even tho technically a CU member is an owner too. To me it's just icing on the cake.
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