Tangerine Alternative? | Page 2 | Alterna Bank | Discussion forum

Links on my Alterna account don't show when I use my mobile app.

I find their format and customer service to be very similar to Eq bank.

AndreasChen said

Why did they reject my draft request then LOL

I'd guess that's because the request for a draft at an Alterna Bank or Alterna Savings branch requires an in-branch withdrawal.

AndreasChen said

Easy deposits, hard withdraws. Now I wonder if these high yield banks really have the cash they are supposed to hold.

Branch service costs more. Such banks probably don't want to both pay higher deposit interest and pay for providing branch service.

Are in-branch withdrawals at an Alterna branch needed? The eSavings account has two free Interac e-Transfers per month. Those can be used to transfer modest amounts to an account at another financial institution where one has branch access.

One may be also able to get Alterna branch service by opening an Alterna Bank Daily Interest Savings account, that includes in-branch service. If one can quickly move funds from a High Interest eSavings account to the Daily Interest Savings account, then one can do up to two free in-branch transaction per month through the Daily Interest Savings account.

These banks are branding themselves with the word "on-line", but the hidden reality behind the fashionable marketing language is "no-liquidity-no-guarantee". This is the trick.

I think Andreas has a good point.
I don't think it's necessarily about a lack of liquidity - even a Big Five bricks-and-mortar branch will balk (and require notice) if you want to make a large cash withdrawal because it might impact their float.
However, this is not cash; it's just paper, and their credit is good so this is not a problem for them.

Delivery, however, is an issue. It is one that has rarely been mentioned on the forum and I think it is something we should all be aware of, because it's going to be the way of the future.

Online banking is not full service banking, much as some of them might like us to think it is. None of them have ATMs that can dispense bank drafts or certified cheques! And for some reason, even those that have both branches and online service are typically unwilling to mix the two in order to meet your needs.

I read an article the other day which was, as I recall, about TD. Their management was making it quite clear, in this article, that the future of in-branch banking as we have known it is going to be quite different than today. They are clearly moving towards using the branches primarily for "wealth management". I think all of them are closing branches gradually. This makes sense when you consider that they offer next to zero interest on any account (and don't seem to care if you take your money out and put it elsewhere), and also, if you do have a significant bank account, all they ever want to talk to you about is investing it with their advisors. I see few signs, either from this article or from my personal experience with them, that they are interested in anything but mortgages, car loans and "wealth management". They will go after students etc to open new accounts, but these would be a recruitment ground for them for more business later.

I suspect that as the banking world becomes more electronic, the need for things like bank drafts, for which a branch is important, will diminish and disappear. But, for now, an important question which I always try to answer before opening a new online account is, "how will I get the money out?" Are there withdrawal limits? How much notice do I need to give (if any)? How long will it take my request to be processed and money to be transferred (if I am requesting a transfer)? How long are holds? etc. They are always keen to tell you how you can put it IN, but finding out how it comes out is sometimes more difficult.

Loonie said

I think Andreas has a good point.
I don't think it's necessarily about a lack of liquidity - even a Big Five bricks-and-mortar branch will balk (and require notice) if you want to make a large cash withdrawal because it might impact their float.
However, this is not cash; it's just paper, and their credit is good so this is not a problem for them.

Delivery, however, is an issue. It is one that has rarely been mentioned on the forum and I think it is something we should all be aware of, because it's going to be the way of the future.

Online banking is not full service banking, much as some of them might like us to think it is. None of them have ATMs that can dispense bank drafts or certified cheques! And for some reason, even those that have both branches and online service are typically unwilling to mix the two in order to meet your needs.

I read an article the other day which was, as I recall, about TD. Their management was making it quite clear, in this article, that the future of in-branch banking as we have known it is going to be quite different than today. They are clearly moving towards using the branches primarily for "wealth management". I think all of them are closing branches gradually. This makes sense when you consider that they offer next to zero interest on any account (and don't seem to care if you take your money out and put it elsewhere), and also, if you do have a significant bank account, all they ever want to talk to you about is investing it with their advisors. I see few signs, either from this article or from my personal experience with them, that they are interested in anything but mortgages, car loans and "wealth management". They will go after students etc to open new accounts, but these would be a recruitment ground for them for more business later.

I suspect that as the banking world becomes more electronic, the need for things like bank drafts, for which a branch is important, will diminish and disappear. But, for now, an important question which I always try to answer before opening a new online account is, "how will I get the money out?" Are there withdrawal limits? How much notice do I need to give (if any)? How long will it take my request to be processed and money to be transferred (if I am requesting a transfer)? How long are holds? etc. They are always keen to tell you how you can put it IN, but finding out how it comes out is sometimes more difficult.

I think we mostly agree. I kind of mixed up the terms for cash or other certified papers. In my work they are all the same, and we refer to them as liquidity

Loonie said

… And for some reason, even those that have both branches and online service are typically unwilling to mix the two in order to meet your needs.

I read an article the other day which was, as I recall, about TD. Their management was making it quite clear, in this article, that the future of in-branch banking as we have known it is going to be quite different than today. They are clearly moving towards using the branches primarily for "wealth management". I think all of them are closing branches gradually.…

In-branch service is expensive. That reality applies regardless of whether it is a chartered bank or a credit union. The financial institution will try to have those who do use the service pay for it.

This, from Globe & Mail (Aug. 29, 2015): Bricks, mortar and beyond, gives a perspective from the bank's side:

…
According to Meny Grauman, an analyst at Cormark Securities, a transaction at a bank branch costs the institution about 50 times what a mobile banking transaction costs. If banks cut their branch footprint by just 10 per cent – through either closures or smaller formats – the savings in rent, salaries and equipment would drive up their earnings by an average of 2.7 per cent, Mr. Grauman estimates.

“The cost of operating bank branches is significant,” says Ian Cunningham, chief operating officer at Tangerine, a branchless division of Bank of Nova Scotia. “You need to have expertise in all these different locations to provide financial advice and product advice. It’s very difficult and expensive to do.”

U.S. banks appear to have done this math, and have been cutting branches even as the economy improves and the once-rattled banking sector stabilizes. …

However, Canadian banks have been moving in the other direction, expanding their networks under the belief that branches remain integral to their operations. They operated a total of 6,348 branches in 2014, up 127 from the previous year and more than 400 since 2006, according to the CBA.

“People are not going into branches as much as they used to,” says James McPhedran, executive vice-president of retail distribution at Scotiabank. “But we’re having a significantly higher number of advice conversations in our branches now. They are relevant and they are where big things happen.”

Norman1 said
If one hour is the requirement, then an online-only savings account may not be enough.

The best a call centre could do is issue the draft immediately and send it by overnight courier to you. The overnight courier is likely going to cost about another $30.

Alterna Bank does offer accounts that include in-branch access through their Alterna Bank branches and Alterna Savings branches. An example is their Daily Interest Savings Account. Rate is 0.05% per annum in contrast to the 1.95% of their online-only eSavings Account.

The question is how quickly can one transfer funds online from an eSavings account to another Alterna Bank account. If it can be immediate, then one could do the transfer online and then go to a nearby Alterna Saving branch for a draft paid by funds in the receiving account.

I certainly agree in-branch transactions are expensive. However they can also avoid it by automating draft/cheque requests to ABM cheaply but they won't. Again, these banks are masking the fact that they don't want depositors to access money quickly, by a fancy word called "on-line". When the market is running for cash, our deposits in these banks become numbers, only on-line.

AndreasChen said
…
Of course we can print cheques for Alterna, but for how much? Does the 0.25% justify the cheque printing cost? If Alterna provides five free cheques to the "on-line" account it will completely turn the table around.

Cheques are not available for Alterna Bank's eSavings account. One would need to open an online-only eChequing account and transfer funds from eSavings to eChequing for cheque access.

Whether or not the extra ¼% per annum from the eSavings account is worth it depends on the amount of money deposited and how often one needs to use cheques.

For $50,000, the extra ¼% per annum is an extra $125 per year in interest. I don't know how much Alterna Bank charges for cheques. Alterna Bank's service fees listing says personalized cheques are at cost. If it is anything like what ASAP Cheques charges, 100 personalize cheques would be around $30.

Joebart said

Did anybody noticed low transfer limits on transfer from Alterna to other banks?
Please note the maximum incoming and outgoing limits:
…
So if I deposit 200K it will take me two deposits and two days
If I want to take it out it will take me almost two months
Do you find it funny?

Saver-Mom noticed that too earlier in the thread Alterna Transfers:

Saver-Mom said

I am concerned and uneasy about the outgoing transfer limits, $25k daily, $50k weekly and $125k monthly. Incoming transfer limits are $100, $250k and $500k for those time periods. Why have any such limits? It's my money! If it can be securely transferred in, why not out? Plus, they say "For security reasons, there may be a 4 business day hold on outgoing Me-to-Me transfers." Sounds excessive! Aren't holds usually only on incoming funds? Opinions?

Those limits are just for the Me-to-Me transfers.

That is great, but if you do it again tomorrow for 25k and the day after 5k you are done for a week.
If you do it again next week you are done for a month.
No access to the rest of your money for a some time and that somehow doesn't feel right to me...